Round canopies and county specific rules and laws?

[anj4de 0]

Hello all

I would be interested to hear from the global community which rules and regulations exist when it comes to round canopy jumping, both free fall and static line in the various countries around the globe. Reason being that I heard rumors that certain countries completely forbid jumping rounds...(UK, France...?)

I can start with Germany:
Training up to receiving your license is done on ram air chutes only, both traditional and AFF. The possibility of getting a static line license only is given. After you have your license rounds can be jumped if the logistics and DZ allows it and of course if your kit is certified air worthy. This goes for free fall and SL.

thanks
Uwe

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

-Leonardo da Vinci

[pchapman 279]

Canada: No restrictions in general by the government or by the voluntary skydiving organization CSPA.

However, ram air canopies are required by the gov't for mains and reserves when doing demo jumps.

Any CSPA jumper is supposed to be trained in whatever equipment they are jumping. I have heard of a DZ banning round reserves, due to proximity to water or suburbs or the like. There are also some dropzones, especially in Quebec, that insist on AADs. That's very awkward if one has multiple sets of gear & belly mounts. No TSO or other certification is required for equipment in Canada, so one could for example jump Russian military gear (as I have).

France: Even back in '03, round reserves were banned (eg, even for those of us coming as temporary guests to the World Championships) and round mains were banned too. AAD's are mandatory. (But I don't know the relationship of gov't and sport organizations and how that affects things.)

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Canada: No restrictions in general by the government or by the voluntary skydiving organization CSPA.

PIM 1
BSRs:
2:14 All students must be dispatched on parachute systems equipped with 'Ram-air' main canopies.

[piisfish 140]

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Reason being that I heard rumors that certain countries completely forbid jumping rounds...(UK, France...?)

AFAIK France has specific rules for rounds. Not OK for "regular" sport jumping, but OK to jump in certain conditions/events/with a certain type of licence.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Krip 2]

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Reason being that I heard rumors that certain countries completely forbid jumping rounds...(UK, France...?)

AFAIK France has specific rules for rounds. Not OK for "regular" sport jumping, but OK to jump in certain conditions/events/with a certain type of licence.

Something like WAR

[piisfish 140]

naaaah.. Military is different. We are talking "sport jumpers". So that would be demos, commemorative jumps, "nostalgia weekends".

Funny thing is that "back in the days" you needed to have lots of jumps on rounds before going "ram-air".

Now you need 300 jumps, a C-License to be authorised to jump a Para-Commander or even a T-10

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Krip 2]

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naaaah.. Military is different. We are talking "sport jumpers". So that would be demos, commemorative jumps, "nostalgia weekends".

Funny thing is that "back in the days" you needed to have lots of jumps on rounds before going "ram-air".

Now you need 300 jumps, a C-License to be authorised to jump a Para-Commander or even a T-10

That is funny

[Justpin 0]

UK does not ban rounds canopies/parachutes at least as reserves I am unsure about the main though. They are considered kinda out of date though.

There are one or two dropzones that still use them. If I remember correctly Langar converted to square square in 1997. Old habits die hard though and some people say that these DZs are doing it for reasons of cost and not replacing them.

Black Knights use them as reserves on almost all of their hire kit and student kit. Static line and AFF. I thought they used square square on AFF and hire kit until I saw a chop and then had a look and saw no freebags.

[dragon2 2]

Well there must be a reason we get planeloads of British, Belgian and French jumpers every year for round SL courses here in the Netherlands...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[pincheck 0]

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Black Knights use them as reserves on almost all of their hire kit and student kit. Static line and AFF. I thought they used square square on AFF and hire kit until I saw a chop and then had a look and saw no freebags.

Yes seen one there myself after a student cutaway. Don't think they are banned in the UK per say. More of you would need proof and inspection of the equipment to persuade the CCI who would have the final say so on jumping it . One of my old riggers who was based in Scotland, Used to have a collection of these and loved jumping them, was enjoyable to watch

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[riggerrob 643]

History lesson: when I started jumping - back in the late 1970s - every school used military-surplus round parachutes. The problem is that rounds tend to land straight down, requiring a PLF, a difficult, non-intuitive skill that takes many horus to learn. It seemed like a student broke or sprained an ankle every weekend. By the end of 1979, I had already carried my life-time quota of stretchers off the DZ.

Circa 1980, Crown Assets Disposal and the U.S. military quit selling parachutes intact.
This forced skydiving schools to pay new prices for the first time. A new, round student main cost around $800. Meanwhile, new square student main canopies (LR288, Manta 290, DC-5, Unit 4, etc.) could be purchased for about $800.
The first schools to adopt squares for students saw a dramatic reduction in student injuries and a dramatic reduction in malfunctions. Injuries were redeuce to scraped knees and grass stains, because students now slid-out bad landings ... over the distance of several metres ... an instinctive procedure for most humans.

By 1989, both CSPA and USPA changed their BSRs to "recommend" that all first jump students use large, docile, ram-air canopies.

By 2000, most schools had also converted to square reserves (averaging 250 square feet).

A decade after they standardized on square mains for students, Pitt Meadows banned round reserves for licensed jumpers. there were two motivations for the ban: first, few licensed jumpers had any experience with landing round mains; secondly the Pitt Meadows DZ is bordered by the Fraser River and is on the edge of town. Anyone "landing out" risks swimming in a fast-flowing river or dodging trees, wires, houses, etc.
The last jump - in Pitt Meadows - with a round canopy (Para-Commander) was probably 5 years ago. Para-Commanders don't land half as hard as military-surplus round canopies.
Any jumper old enough to remember how to land rounds, also has fragile bones and is not willing to risk injury.

[jimp 1]

Still widely in use at small aeroclubs throughout the former Soviet Union.

Peter Chapman should love this clip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4AD02qtlws&feature=related

[Justpin 0]

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Injuries were redeuce to scraped knees and grass stains, because students now slid-out bad landings ... over the distance of several metres ... an instinctive procedure for most humans.

Interesting, I forgot to flare once and slid out and I was completely fine bar some grass stains on my shoes.

While the two chops I've seen with round reserves one was OK, the other guy broke his ankles.

[pchapman 279]

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Peter Chapman should love this clip.

[Russian] Da! [/Russian]

Clearly rounds aren't entirely out of fashion in eastern Europe.

[jimp 1]

On the last pass the PPK 3 is set for 3 seconds

(love that radial engine rumble!)

[piisfish 140]

Must be KAP3 not ppk. And the radial is from the An-2

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jimp 1]

The clip was recorded at Loginovo drop zone near Yekaterinburg Russia, so I expect they employ the Soviet made version (PPK 3) of the Czech KAP 3.

(Gotta love that An2!)

jim

[piisfish 140]

Thanks for the precision

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jimp 1]

My pleasure

[FastRon 0]

Seems odd to hear of the ban on round canopies. Once upon a time, squares were not really taken to terminal and tended to malfunction 1/3 or more of the time- only die-hard accuracy people were leaping with them. Squares were 'risky' compared to various rounds like PC's, Starlites, Piglets etc- some of which had their own issues. To save money I heard that guys were packing their own reserves, when jumping squares because they mal'ed so often. No one then would dream of jumping a square reserve w/ a mal rate of 30+%!