Did you progress too fast?

[wmw999 2,452]

Were you lucky, were you studious and careful, or were you just one of the large percentage who are significantly better than average?

And how do you measure success? Are you an excellent swooper, or can you just fly a small canopy? There used ot be a dz.commer whose definition of success was the size of the canopy; he really didn't care about swooping.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[danielcroft 2]

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Let us hear from those who wish they had more time or experience before they downsized etc.

Student jumps were all on Navigators between 200 & 280, I weigh, like 180/185 out the door so lightly loaded.

Actual canopy progressions was relatively quick I guess.

This is in order, starting at jump 26
37 jumps on 190s - split between Spectre and Sabre 2
90 on 170 - mostly Safire 2 but also Sabre 2, Lotus, Spectre and Storm
127 on 150 - Sabre 2 (for the most part)
37 on 135 Sabre 2 (did a few on Safire 2 129 as well)
Then went 120 Sabre 2 (@ 1.54) for I think 150 or so jumps (don't have that log book handy, yes, I go back over and count)

Now, after demoing the crap out of a Skylark Odyssey 115, Crossfire 2 119 and a Katana 120 I bought an Odyssey 115 which I'm loading at 1.6. I got my Pro rating on the Odyssey (demo ) and have put a couple of jumps on my wife's Stiletto 107 (@ 1.72) which was fun.

I haven't injured myself yet or anyone else. I've had a few rough landings, like 5 or 6 total but only 2 of those since I had 100 jumps. I've taken a canopy course (Brian's) and a Pro rating course. I've been learning HP canopy flight for a while (400 jumps or so) and often do H&Ps out the door. I've had very experienced people mentoring me all the way along (which I really appreciate). My ultimate goal is not to be "a swooper" but just be able to fly whatever canopy I happen to have well and completely. Oh, I also got my P2 rating for paragliding and am planning to continue working towards the higher ratings.

I would never recommend anyone take the path I'm on, but I feel like my path is particular to me and supported by people who not only know me and how I fly but also understand what's going on and will kick my ass if needed.

While I don't recommend people do what I've done, I do encourage everyone to learn their canopy and enjoy it. It can be so beautiful doing a sunset clear and pull for example, make it something you look forward to. That means being honest about your abilities and desires and not just trying to find the easy way. I feel that I've worked pretty hard at learning canopy control and it's something I take really seriously, unfortunately, I can't say that about a lot of other people.

[Baksteen 84]

The fact that you're a pilot might actually work against you.

Pilots, paragliders, kite surfers - they all know something about (canopy) flight/canopy control.

But being taught stuff in a skydiving ground course is one thing, muscle memory quite another.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[jimmytavino 16]

actually, quite the opposite


started slow. continued slow....
made almost a thousand jumps on a round main....

it took until jump # 279 to hit ONE hour of freefall, which occured in May of 1975

didn't get a 4 way until my jump # 300... and THAT was at a time when there was NOTHING else to do BUT Rw......
also at a time when we were sorta "self taught".. there was a fair bit of written material about canopy control, gear choices, spotting, EM's etc... but it wasn't until Pat Works book, The Art of Freefall Relative Work... that concepts like the relative wind, sequential, formations other than a star....came to be.

I jumped mostly C 180s and C 182s, with an occasional visit to a Dz that had a 206... But seldom went above Seven-Five and at a time when the D license requirements included a certain number of "60 second delays" i was qualified for years.. before reaching THAT goal... I Know,,,,, I should have gone to where there were DC3s' or loadstars, or beeches that routinely climbed that high....but i didn't... i was "happy at home" and always working, so i had limited vacation time, to skydive..

always was cautious and so when ram airs came around, i was tentative... saw lots of my pals getting slammed, at opening, or getting hurt on landing.... waited a good long time til i "got a para-plane cloud"
Regular jumping and staying current , has allowed me to develop the confidence to skydive the way i like. and the wisdom to recognize that 'There ARE dangers out there" and that "it's easy to get sucked in..to things that are beyond one's current abilities".. I've seen that, alot.....

I tend to UP size rather than downsize,,, and feel that i fly plenty Fast enough, without having to go screaming around the sky..I can land my parachute pretty much ANYwhere,,, On or Off the DZ

even now, have never done a 270 to landing, let alone a 540.. and seldom fly my canopy with front risers....

so i sure did NOT progress too fast

slow and steady has worked just fine , for me...
but, to each his own The sport allows each of us to progress independently and at whatever pace we choose....as well as in whatever Discipline(s) we like.

me???? i just like being on a DZ, sharing the fun and energy with those around me, getting on the manifest, a whatever pace i choose, and relishing each and every jump made alone, or with friends...

I've also always had a certain level of respect and maybe fear,,,,,about jumping and that has kept me within certain sensible limits... I'm glad about that Now.....as it has allowed me to stay WITH the sport... even as i watch soooo many "hot-shot" types.....either get hurt, or simply fade away.....like the sun sinking below the horizon.. while I am completing MY canopy descent to the pea gravel on yet another memorable sunset load !!!
skydive softly, skydive often, skydive with friends

jmy
A 3914
D 12122
nscr 1817

[kd5xb 1]

Yeah. I progressed too fast.

But not with the size of my canopy, unless you count the fact that, back in the '70's, you needed 200+ jumps to transition to a square, and instead, I did it at about 50 jumps. This was along about 1979 or so.

The REAL place where I progressed too fast was in the type of RW we were attempting. At the same 50 jumps or so, we were attempting 3- and 4-way RW, I was making approaches to other jumpers, and had NO idea just how hot my approaches were. I collided pretty hard with another jumper one day, fortunately we didn't get hurt -- but the potential was totally there.

And packing, too -- in a rush? Just coil up the suspension lines underneath the deployment bag... Nope, that doesn't work all that well. Well, actually, it worked fine until it didn't and I ended up WAY low at terminal trying to fix something that wouldn't fix.

Nope, THIS time around, I'm moving in a slow and deliberate manner, I already know how to ride reserves, and I already know what ground rush looks like, so I don't think I want to see them again.

Best advice to remember, not just for skydiving, but for just about anything you do in life, is not to get into a big hurry. Usually things go sour when you do.

I'm a jumper. Even though I don't always have money for jumps, and may not ever own a rig again, I'll always be a jumper.

[pchapman 279]

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The fact that you're a pilot might actually work against you.
Pilots, paragliders, kite surfers - they all know something about (canopy) flight/canopy control.

I see that there can be some negative transfer, that shouldn't be ignored -- but I think the positive will generally outweigh the negative.

The worst negative probably would happen with paragliding vs. skydiving because the controls are similar -- you aren't going to get much muscle memory transfer, good or bad, from going from an airplane control yoke to parachute toggles.

Certainly one may have misconceptions about parachute canopy flight if coming from paragliding, but there are so many misconceptions anyway about parachute flight, that it comes down to training.

So I have heard of pilots falling way short on final when they try to fly the circuit with a parachute, but once they clue in to the visuals of a low glide ratio and poor wind penetration, I bet they can figure out the whole circuit idea pretty fast.

(If we take this any further, it would be best to take it to a new thread.)

[Baksteen 84]

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So I have heard of pilots falling way short on final when they try to fly the circuit with a parachute, but once they clue in to the visuals of a low glide ratio and poor wind penetration, I bet they can figure out the whole circuit idea pretty fast.

(If we take this any further, it would be best to take it to a new thread.)

No need

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[JohnMitchell 16]

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What I regret is that due to my unwillingness to listen in the beginning,

Very honest reply. You got class, Dave.

Last season a middle-aged, out of shape, 50 jump wonder broke his leg on yet another bad landing, and I haven't seen him back since. The weekend before I had tried twice to talk to him about improving his crappy landings I had just witnessed. He didn't want to bothered.

[Ron 10]

Yep.

I had lots of people telling me I would be fine, that I had the skills to handle it. I was jumping a stiletto 97 with 300 jumps. Finally a jumper with a massive amount of exp told me to slow down. I up sized to a stiletto 120. My friends thought I was stupid. I hooked that fucker into the ground.

I remember hitting and then thinking "Well, at least its over".... The I hit the second time, the third and then the long slide/tumble. I limped away, had to use crutches for a week... But overall got off lucky.

People who saw it... People who heard it... All thought I was dead.

If it had been the 97, I think they would have been correct.

Up until that point, only ONE person had told me to calm down... The rest thought I would be fine.

They took me to the hospital... I had no serious damage, just massive pain. I made it back to the DZ before the end of the day... And to add insult to injury, a buddy was jumping landing my new gear as we pulled up.

Good things:
1. I didn't die
2. I hooked up with a smoking hot nurse I had been chasing around the DZ for weeks.

This I just one of the reasons I am a 'canopy nazi'... The others involve holding people together till the ambulance showe up to take them to the hospital... Or in a few cases the morgue.

Remember, until my dumbass move only ONE guy stepped up to warn me. My buddies all thought I would be fine. I had to later hold one of their legs together till careflight arrived.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334