When did you start swooping?

[FallsLikeABrick 0]

I'm at just around 50 jumps now, and am not looking to get into swooping anytime soon. However, I would like to get there some day. My question is, what jump number did you start swooping, and how did you learn?

I am in the process of building my first rig, and am trying to make it as versatile as possible (in other words, last as long as possible as skills increase). I should have a Storm 170 in there, which puts me on just above a 1:1 wing loading.

Just looking for some advice for the future!

Thanks guys

I just wanted to let you know, the back of yo' head is radikulus

[Trae 1]

Learn to skydive first.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

If you want to swoop you should get the storm out of there and get a Sabre 2 or Saphire 2. I don't mean you are going to be swooping it next month, but rather you should give up on the 7 cell thing. Most competitive swoopers will tell you that the real art of swooping is less about "the move" (which in a perfect world will be exactly the same each time) and more about the downwind, crosswind and final turns. Concentrate on flying a perfect pattern in varying conditions for 2-300 jumps and then start a swooping progression still on your mildly eliptical canopy. Around 500 jumps switch to a Katana, Crossfire 2 or Samarai. Swoop the hell out of that for another 500 jumps and then switch to a cross-braced.
A lot of people will tell you you can do it faster, and you can, but this is what you should do.
Seriously, can the 7 cell.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "If you want to swoop you should get the storm out of there and get a Sabre 2 or Saphire 2. I don't mean you are going to be swooping it next month, but rather you should give up on the 7 cell thing. Most competitive swoopers will tell you that the real art of swooping is less about "the move" (which in a perfect world will be exactly the same each time) and more about the downwind, crosswind and final turns. Concentrate on flying a perfect pattern in varying conditions for 2-300 jumps and then start a swooping progression still on your mildly eliptical canopy. Around 500 jumps switch to a Katana, Crossfire 2 or Samarai. Swoop the hell out of that for another 500 jumps and then switch to a cross-braced.
A lot of people will tell you you can do it faster, and you can, but this is what you should do.
Seriously, can the 7 cell. "
.......................................

Just wondering Andrewwhyte how long you've been giving this sort of advice to newbies?

I mean seriously, the guys got 50 jumps and you're telling him to ditch a perfectly good canopy to learn on and get himself an elliptical?

Swoop the hell out of a Katana at 500 jumps ? and then switch to a crossbraced (if you survive)?

Your sort of advice kills people.

[virgin-burner 1]

they're called Safire2..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Austintxflight 0]

started about 5 jumps after AFF

[virgin-burner 1]

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started about 5 jumps after AFF

got a new username sangi!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[drudchen 0]

relevant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBe-Rh7o4U

[SRI85 0]

Quote

in reply to "If you want to swoop you should get the storm out of there and get a Sabre 2 or Saphire 2. I don't mean you are going to be swooping it next month, but rather you should give up on the 7 cell thing. Most competitive swoopers will tell you that the real art of swooping is less about "the move" (which in a perfect world will be exactly the same each time) and more about the downwind, crosswind and final turns. Concentrate on flying a perfect pattern in varying conditions for 2-300 jumps and then start a swooping progression still on your mildly eliptical canopy. Around 500 jumps switch to a Katana, Crossfire 2 or Samarai. Swoop the hell out of that for another 500 jumps and then switch to a cross-braced.
A lot of people will tell you you can do it faster, and you can, but this is what you should do.
Seriously, can the 7 cell. "
.......................................

Just wondering Andrewwhyte how long you've been giving this sort of advice to newbies?

I mean seriously, the guys got 50 jumps and you're telling him to ditch a perfectly good canopy to learn on and get himself an elliptical?

Swoop the hell out of a Katana at 500 jumps ? and then switch to a crossbraced (if you survive)?

Your sort of advice kills people.

A safire or a sabre is perfectly suited for a noob.

[SStewart 13]

I started back in the early 1980's

But, back then swooping was something you did before the parachute opened.

Onward and Upward!

[Remster 30]

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in reply to "If you want to swoop you should get the storm out of there and get a Sabre 2 or Saphire 2. I don't mean you are going to be swooping it next month, but rather you should give up on the 7 cell thing. Most competitive swoopers will tell you that the real art of swooping is less about "the move" (which in a perfect world will be exactly the same each time) and more about the downwind, crosswind and final turns. Concentrate on flying a perfect pattern in varying conditions for 2-300 jumps and then start a swooping progression still on your mildly eliptical canopy. Around 500 jumps switch to a Katana, Crossfire 2 or Samarai. Swoop the hell out of that for another 500 jumps and then switch to a cross-braced.
A lot of people will tell you you can do it faster, and you can, but this is what you should do.
Seriously, can the 7 cell. "
.......................................

Just wondering Andrewwhyte how long you've been giving this sort of advice to newbies?

I mean seriously, the guys got 50 jumps and you're telling him to ditch a perfectly good canopy to learn on and get himself an elliptical?

Swoop the hell out of a Katana at 500 jumps ? and then switch to a crossbraced (if you survive)?

Your sort of advice kills people.

A safire or a sabre is perfectly suited for a noob.

So is a Storm.

Remster

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Just wondering Andrewwhyte how long you've been giving this sort of advice to newbies?

I mean seriously, the guys got 50 jumps and you're telling him to ditch a perfectly good canopy to learn on and get himself an elliptical?

Swoop the hell out of a Katana at 500 jumps ? and then switch to a crossbraced (if you survive)?

Your sort of advice kills people.

The storm is a perfectly good canopy if you want a 7 cell, if you want the type of advantages that come with a 7 cell. I do not think a 7 cell is a good canopy to learn on if you are going to be using a 9 cell later. If the manufacturers thought that they would use 7 cell canopies for students. They do not, they use mildly elliptical 9 cell canopies. If you are interested in pursuing high performance canopy skills there are better canopies to use than a Storm. I suggested a couple that are appropriate for B license jumpers.
If you think my advice about moving to a Katana at around 500 jumps is a bit too aggressive that is your opinion, but it is not shared by many in the industry that I know. Many people think of 500 jumps as the minimum for a cross-braced canopy. I believe that is too aggressive so I suggested another path; moving from a slightly elliptical to a highly elliptical non cross-braced around that time and learn on it before moving to the higher performance cross-braced. If the OP does want to go that way I think the Sabre2 is the best canopy for him to learn on at this stage of his development.
Your comment up the page about him learning to skydive before he worried about it indicates to me that you don't consider canopy piloting to be 'real' skydiving. Just like 20 years ago we wanted everyone to spend several hundred jumps doing 4-way before they tried freeflying perhaps you think this fellow needs several hundred jumps doing 4-way before he can start focusing on his canopy work. I respectfully disagree. Instead of Airspeed camps he can spend his money on canopy courses.

[diablopilot 2]

Hmmmm, I started with a 7 cell and won a couple pieces of bling at CP Nats, 5 years later.... of course I had a few parachutes in between, had done bigways, CRW, and generally worked on becoming a proficient skydiver...

You both have a point: Why be in a rush is the one I'd make here.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[davelepka 4]

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I am in the process of building my first rig, and am trying to make it as versatile as possible (in other words, last as long as possible as skills increase). I should have a Storm 170 in there, which puts me on just above a 1:1 wing loading.

How is it that you load a 210 at 1 to 1, and you think a 170 will be just above 1.1 to 1? That math doesn't add up, and neither does your 'plan' to force the issue with your canopy size in order to 'make it last'.

Slow down, and put a 190 into your first rig. Look for a reasonably priced used 190, and put 100 jumps on it. Then sell the 190, and buy a reasonably priced used 170 for the same amount of money. Keep the container, reserve, and AAD you started off with, and enjoy an easier pack job due to the smaller canopy.

You make a rig 'last' by sizing the container to fit your current, and next size canopy, not by forcing the issue and starting with a smaller canopy. In that case, your rig will last, but it might be due to you being broken and the rig sitting in the closet.

Along those same lines, what size reserve are you planning on for this rig? Keeping in mind that using a bigger reserve will never hurt you, but a smaller one will, you should be looking at 1 to 1 MAX for your reserve, and just leave it that way until you need to buy a new rig. If you follow the plan, that will be several hundred jumps from now, and you'll be a MUCH better jumper by then.

When did I start swooping? A couple years and 300+ jumps in, and even then it was a different animal back then. Canopies were slower, and what we asipred to what about 40% of what the average swooper is in to today.

Forget about everything but your next 10 jumps. Come up with some goals and a plan for those jumps, make the jumps, then start thinking about the next 10. Keep that up for 100 jumps, then you can bump the number up to 20 jumps. You have so much to learn right now that you're just wasting time and losing focus thinking about things that are nowehere near right now.

[stayhigh 2]

That sounds like a perfect advice,
what is wrong with jumping katana at 500 jump and x-brace at 1000???

most do katana around 3-400 jumps.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[hcsvader 1]

I didn't really start doing high performance landings (swooping) until I had around 400-500 jumps. Most of the jumping I was doing before that was bigways at boogies where HP landing were not allowed because of traffic.
During those jumps I focused on flying a pattern that will put me where I want to be at certain altitudes as well as working on accuracy on almost every jump.
There is no reason you can't start using your risers, both front and rear to help with your accuracy. Talk to your instructors about how this works
I did a season of classic accuracy on a big slow 7 cell just to help me learn more about flying a pattern and landing exactly where I wanted to.
Once I decided I wanted to start adding riser turns to my landings I took a couple of canopy courses and had video debriefs of every landing.

at almost 600 jumps now I haven't done anything larger than a 90degree turn for landings, but I am where I want to be, at the hight I want be and I am getting some really fun, fast, and exciting swoops in, and they are on a safire2 loaded at 1.2

I am confident doing these turns in high wind, no wind, cross wind and down wind. No Im not flying a small canopy or doing big turns, but I am having fun and staying safe.

You can start learning to fly your canopy to it's full potential at anytime, take a canopy course, or if ones not available around you ask some of your instuctors that are doing HP stuff what you need to work on to get there eventually.
If you can find some local competitions that have a junior accuracy meet, they are a great place to start off in canopy piloting.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[chuckakers 425]

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Concentrate on flying a perfect pattern...

I have a better idea. Concentrate on the traffic around you as you fly a predictable pattern. Patterns are only a good idea. Focusing on flying a "perfect pattern" will lead to tunnel vision, and that will lead to trouble.

Next, stop listening to anyone who tells you what canopy you *should be* flying. Think about it. The people you are asking for advice have never seen you fly. There's no way they could know what canopy is right for you.

Here's some sound advice. Stay conservative. Master each canopy you fly before even considering a change to more performance. Don't start f*cking around with performance turns.

Did I say stay conservative? Stay conservative.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[SRI85 0]

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Concentrate on flying a perfect pattern...

I have a better idea.

You always do Chuck!

[FallsLikeABrick 0]

For those of you who actually gave worthwhile responses, thank you.

First, the 210 wasn't loaded to a 1:1. I rounded. I weigh 190 out the door, (which is why I am now on a Sabre2 190). I'm an engineer, I assure you I can divide. And I also have more than 26 jumps or whatever my profile says. I haven't been on here in awhile, and I don't change it every time I am. I'm not forcing the issue, I just honestly have no problem with the 190 and think a Storm 170 would be a perfect transition off the student-level wing loading. I'm not rushing to do anything, just don't want to buy a cadillac when I am more than comfortable switching to one size below.

drudchen, here is something relevant that you should probably take a look at:

http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

Once you've been there, re-read my posting. I clearly stated that I had no intentions of starting to swoop anytime soon, but I was merely asking for advice on when YOU started swooping and how you learned.

chuckakers, you were spot on with your last post. Anyone around the dz that I talk to knows I am extremely conservative. I fly my canopy the same as well. Some would even say too conservative, but I don't think that is really possible in skydiving. I also am aware that you are always learning, whether you have 10 jumps or 10,000 jumps. So advice from other jumpers should never be taken as fact, but merely opinion.

Just because I have low jump numbers doesn't mean I can't do research on where I want to get to in the future. I like to learn, and since when has asking advice from a community of experienced individuals been a bad thing? I also would love to fly a wingsuit, but that doesn't mean I'm going to order one off chutingstar tonight.

I appreciate the responses, and I value all of your opinions because of the experience you all have. But just because you're experienced doesn't give you the right to be arrogant. So if you feel the need to show your 'superior knowledge' by being a dick, it's really not necessary.

I just wanted to let you know, the back of yo' head is radikulus

[mchamp 1]

I have just now begin to touch upon swooping with my Sabre2 WL @ 1.2. I've done a handful of 90 degree turns but I can definitely feel when I have a more powerful smoother 90 turn and ones that are not quite as smooth or powerful. Definitely still working on consistency and smoothness with the 90's and probably will be for a while.

But those are just my 2 cents of when I began swooping. I probably will plan on staying on a sabre2 for the next 300 ish jumps and then consider where I am and get a katana since I've got the lightweight problem. lol

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[JackC1 0]

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I appreciate the responses, and I value all of your opinions because of the experience you all have. But just because you're experienced doesn't give you the right to be arrogant. So if you feel the need to show your 'superior knowledge' by being a dick, it's really not necessary.

You might have known that mentioning the word swoop without a 4 digit jump number in your profile will anger the skygods who will come and beat you repeatedly over the head with wing loading charts and thermonuclear egos. It's dz.com way.

Pffft. Noobs.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Keep the Storm. Do a bunch of CReW jumps with it. That will accelerate your canopy control understanding. In addition, you may find that CReW is so much fun that you won't feel the need to swoop!

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Keep the Storm. Do a bunch of CReW jumps with it. That will accelerate your canopy control understanding.

+1

There's nothing wrong with a Storm and you can swoop the hell out of it.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Willi91 0]

To answer your question, I started pretty early. I think around 60-70 jumps, I began making 90's. My own opinion is that I didn't do anything stupid. None of my 90's was too low, bad looking or anything. But when everything went well I thought, why not take the next step? I advanced to 180's and everything happened in much too fast pace.
With way too low experience, I did a low 270. I didn't get hurt at all, but boy, was I ashamed. But today, I have really learned from it. I'm taking all the advice I can from the skilled swoopers and in my training I'm doing what I can to be consistent.

[Zlew 0]

After I had a few conversations with my canopy guru at the time, and was ready to accept his terms. His angle was that if you wanted to start "surfing" you had to be comfortable with the fact that it's not an issue of if you are going to get hurt landing, but when.

I think I had about 150 jumps when I started pulling double front risers just a hair to build up speed. Slowly progressed to pulling down more and more after learning how long it took the canopy to recover. Then I moved into small turns (double fronts, to like 45 degree turns) probably around 250 jumps. I don't think I was really setting the canopy into a steep dive and doing more significant turns until 300-400 jumps. Even then most of my approaches were 90 degree turns (tame by today's standards).

I'm not sure what the current best practice is for learning to build speed for landing, but at the time my progression was somewhat conservative. I don't see people starting with double fronts much anymore, but that was where I started and at the time I think it helped.