Packers Certificate

[Bertt 0]

What do you think about adding a section to the "who can pack a main" regs like this:
105.43 (a) ..., or, if the next person jumping with the parachute is a licensed skydiver, any person designated by the next person jumping with the parachute.

In other words, a licensed skydiver could designate someone to pack for him, but a student could not.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[DARK 0]

just in the last week i had to get converted over to the australian way of doing things from the us way of doing things

the way the US works has been explained repeatedly here so i wont g into it too much accept to say that packing a main parachute is easy as fuck and the american way works fine even though most places are not following the letter of the law (iv been packing full time in the us for 4 seasons)

so now the australian way. you learn to pack for your self during your training on the way for your first licence.

if yo uwant to pack for someone else you need to get a 'packer b' licence. this involves doing 10 supervised pack jobs (under supervision of a chief instructor) and a written exam.

besides the fact that the exam is horribly out of date asking questions about the early early mechanical aads and the early speed links, i think this is a fairly good system. it allows the packer to perform basic maintenance and repairs to the main (technically any maintenance that only requires assembly)

the next level up from packer b is packer A. this allows you to pack reserves and do basic maintenance but not advanced repairs or modifications

finally then there is a rigger qualification.

[nickeadie 0]

Quote

just in the last week i had to get converted over to the australian way of doing things from the us way of doing things

the way the US works has been explained repeatedly here so i wont g into it too much accept to say that packing a main parachute is easy as fuck and the american way works fine even though most places are not following the letter of the law (iv been packing full time in the us for 4 seasons)

so now the australian way. you learn to pack for your self during your training on the way for your first licence.

if yo uwant to pack for someone else you need to get a 'packer b' licence. this involves doing 10 supervised pack jobs (under supervision of a chief instructor) and a written exam.

besides the fact that the exam is horribly out of date asking questions about the early early mechanical aads and the early speed links, i think this is a fairly good system. it allows the packer to perform basic maintenance and repairs to the main (technically any maintenance that only requires assembly)

the next level up from packer b is packer A. this allows you to pack reserves and do basic maintenance but not advanced repairs or modifications

finally then there is a rigger qualification.

This is correct however you only need a packer B to allow you to pack mains for students, of which tandems are also counted as the jumper on the front is classed as a student. Any body is able to pack the main of a licensed jumper as they are choosing to let someone pack for them, hence the responsibility is on then for having someone they trust pack it.

[nigel99 501]

Quote

Quote

just in the last week i had to get converted over to the australian way of doing things from the us way of doing things

the way the US works has been explained repeatedly here so i wont g into it too much accept to say that packing a main parachute is easy as fuck and the american way works fine even though most places are not following the letter of the law (iv been packing full time in the us for 4 seasons)

so now the australian way. you learn to pack for your self during your training on the way for your first licence.

if yo uwant to pack for someone else you need to get a 'packer b' licence. this involves doing 10 supervised pack jobs (under supervision of a chief instructor) and a written exam.

besides the fact that the exam is horribly out of date asking questions about the early early mechanical aads and the early speed links, i think this is a fairly good system. it allows the packer to perform basic maintenance and repairs to the main (technically any maintenance that only requires assembly)

the next level up from packer b is packer A. this allows you to pack reserves and do basic maintenance but not advanced repairs or modifications

finally then there is a rigger qualification.

This is correct however you only need a packer B to allow you to pack mains for students, of which tandems are also counted as the jumper on the front is classed as a student. Any body is able to pack the main of a licensed jumper as they are choosing to let someone pack for them, hence the responsibility is on then for having someone they trust pack it.

Thanks for the input. I have just read the Australian ops manual on packing and it seems to be quite a good system. There is also a currency requirement which is interesting.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[skygypsie 2]

I would support such a change applied to owner-jumped mains. I figure an owner is smart enough to appreciate the risks involved in having a stranger pack his rig.

I'm not so sure about student or tandem equipment, though. Should equipment "for hire" require a higher standard of care?

Mark
---------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely !

I've been packing as Lead Staff Packer ( tandem, student rigs) for 5 years.

I can't tell you what I've observed coming from the

" just taught because we are short tandem packers & have a big tandem day lined up"...

& the issues coming from that.

I strongly feel all "for hire" packers of tandem &

student rigs, should have to take a course, test out

& prove they can see, handle & know what every rig

packed is all about.

Too many guess, rather than:

" when in doubt, pull it out...ask & repack "

It's not to !

[skygypsie 2]

I think it would be nice to see a "Junior Rigger" or maybe call it just plain "Rigger" that's a step below a Senior Rigger.

Main packs and simple parts replacement only. No reserves or sewing.
________________________________________________
Totally agree with you !

At one time I thought about getting my riggers ticket, but I no longer have any desire to reserve pack.

I'll let hubby continue to do that

However, I highly feel tandem & student packers MUST be trained thoroughly & held to some standards of certification req's...seen too many ignorant pack jobs/ outcomes because of hasty, unknowledgable "just close & get it off the floor" packing !

So how's it going Joe...long time no see

[rifleman 70]

As far as I understand it (and bearing in mind I'm a complete noob), in the UK if you own your own gear you can learn to pack but it only covers you to pack your own equipment. If you want to pack for money, or if you don't own your own kit, you have to attend a packing course and be approved for each type of canopy and container which is then signed off on a packers certificate (BPA form 111). As you learn each new type of canopy/container these are then added to the certificate. I've also attached BPA form 197 (Guidelines for obtaining an approved packing certificate)

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi rifleman,

Thanks for including those documents.

In my previous posts on this thread ( #24, #29 & #44 ) I have asked people, that if they really mean it, to contact Terry Urban to see if we can get something going.

You can now merely copy this posting and send it to him with your thoughts.

Quit complaining & do something!

Thank you,

JerryBaumchen

PS) I will be sending Terry my thoughts this coming week.

[rifleman 70]

No problem, although I'm not sure how much weight my arguments would carry with Terry Urban given that I'm a Brit and only jump in the UK. I've already got my name down for the next packing course at my local DZ and in all probability I'll get my packing certificate before my A licence. Still it'll help pay for the student jumps.

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi rifleman,

The 'you' I was referring to is everyone in the USA who has posted their thoughts on this thread.

Sorry to imply otherwise,

JerryBaumchen

[nigel99 501]

Quote

Hi rifleman,

Thanks for including those documents.

In my previous posts on this thread ( #24, #29 & #44 ) I have asked people, that if they really mean it, to contact Terry Urban to see if we can get something going.

You can now merely copy this posting and send it to him with your thoughts.

Quit complaining & do something!

Thank you,

JerryBaumchen

PS) I will be sending Terry my thoughts this coming week.

Hi Jerry,

Have you had a look at the Australian ops manual and their rules on packing? It looks very good and similar to the Brit system.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi nigel,

Quote

Have you had a look at the Australian ops manual and their rules on packing?

No, I have not.

Actually, I know very little about what the non-USA world is doing. That is why I want the PIA Rigging Committee to take on the task. They could request input from 3-7 other countries and that come up with something that could be presented to the FAA.

Personally, I think it is nutzy that my 89-yr old pregnant grandmother can make a main canopy but only a FAA licensed rigger can pack it.



JerryBaumchen

[nigel99 501]

Quote

Hi nigel,

Quote

Have you had a look at the Australian ops manual and their rules on packing?

No, I have not.

Actually, I know very little about what the non-USA world is doing. That is why I want the PIA Rigging Committee to take on the task. They could request input from 3-7 other countries and that come up with something that could be presented to the FAA.

Personally, I think it is nutzy that my 89-yr old pregnant grandmother can make a main canopy but only a FAA licensed rigger can pack it.



JerryBaumchen

I have extracted the packing section from the Australian ops manual.

Personally I think have 2 packing ratings is excessive, although I think a "packer A" is more of junior rigger because they can pack reserves.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi nigel,

Thanks,

JerryBaumchen