Hole in canopy question...

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

A friend of mine described a sort of scary event that happened to him. I'm curious to get the benefit of the collective wisdom here to see what, if anything, he could have done to detect this problem or handle this problem better.

After a perfectly normal jump, my friend landed and started to gather up his canopy. As he did so, he discovered a hole the size of a basketball in his canopy. (Since this is second hand, I don't know if the hole was on the seam or punched through the fabric itself, but my guess is that it was a seam.) He packed his own rig, and he was certain the hole wasn't there when he packed it, so he's guessing it happened upon deployment.

He told me that as soon as he deployed, he did a controllability check, and everything seemed perfectly normal. As he did his visual inspection ("there, square, slider down"), he didn't notice the hole, but he believes his view of the hole may have been obstructed by his slider.

He's a relatively new jumper (about 50 or 60 jumps), and I'm even more inexperienced (as you can see from my stats), so I'd welcome any input on the following three questions:

(1) Has this ever happened to you?
(2) Aside from stowing the slider (which can't be done on most student rigs, I don't think), is there a way to check for something like this?
(3) Assuming you were well above your hard deck and you discovered you had a hole this size (but it otherwise meets the control check), would you chop? We discussed in my class that "small" holes are probably ok, but large ones merit a chop. Is a basketball small or large?

Of course, being a student, I will discuss this with my instructor next time I go, but in the interim, what do you think?

[Remster 30]

I hate to ask silly questions, but, where was that hole? Was it in one of the ribs by any chance?

Remster

[JohnMitchell 16]

For the type of canopies you are jumping, that size hole is inconsequential. Do get it fixed, though. If it flies okay, it should land okay.

[Trae 1]

This is a bit of a hard call not knowing the true extent or placement of the damage. If your friend had noticed the hole there are a few things he could have considered.

Some people would say just chop it to be on the safe side. For low experience people this is probably the best idea.

If it was a basketball size tear in a largish canopy say 230+ then it might not have been a major problem depending on a few variables such as where the tear/hole was.
You'd have to have a GOOD look and determine whether the hole was getting bigger.
You'd also be sensible to give the canopy a thorough control check.
If you were not capable of doing this with confidence then....chopsuey.

If you have any doubt about whether you could land the damaged canopy......you know the drill.

If it met the control check and the hole wasn't getting bigger then I would be inclined to stay on it.

I've seen people do inflight transfers below 300' more than once. ( wait till you get line stretch on your reserve then cutaway )

Even though in flight transfers are not a tactic to be recommended to students it would be a worthwhile back up plan if you were going to land the damaged but flying canopy and then changed your mind at a lower altitude. Not to be recomended but worth keeping in mind.

If you were really low and the main decided to go batshit then it could be advisable to just dump your reserve without cutting away. Quite a large number of skydivers have been killed by cutting away from canopies too low when they would have been better off just dumping the reserve.
This is definietely a grey area . (i can feel the Ack Ack warming up )

If you found yourself in such a situation any extra options could just save your life.
perhaps you can see why most people would simply say ..........CHOP IT. & POP IT.

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

Remster,

Unfortunately, I don't know precisely where it was.

All,

Thanks for the rapid feedback on this. I should have mentioned it was a 230 main, but my friend is kind of large-ish (I think his wingload on the 230 is about 1.0).

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

I am not an experience skydivier like the rest of these guys are. But if he described it as a hole and not a tear he might be looking at the hole between the ribs. Ask him the location of this hole. I believe the hole in the ribs is roughly the size of a basketball.

_________________________________________
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[mdrejhon 8]

Make sure that this hole is not called a "crossport" (an intentional hole between cells). Go show the hole to a rigger.

Common newbie mistake. We all get scared when we "discover" our first crossport.

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, I have blown a bunch of holes in main canopies (mostly F-111 Strong tandem mains), cutaway a few and landed the rest.
The key question is whether it passes a controlability check.

[nael 0]

Quote

Make sure that this hole is not called a "crossport" (an intentional hole between cells). Go show the hole to a rigger.

Common newbie mistake. We all get scared when we "discover" our first crossport.

I freaked out at about 80 jumps when I saw my first crossport - "dammit, I've torn my canopy! That's me done for the weekend" followed by my boyfriend going "um, that's a crossport you idiot". Oops.

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

Yeah, while I didn't see it first hand, he actually referred to it as a "rip", not a "hole". English is not his primary language, though, so I can't confirm what the heck it truly was until we talk again and I find out whether he had to get it fixed -- he was taking it to a rigger.

I'll let you all know when I find out.

[AFFI 0]

If I ever notice a hole in my canopy I have a preplanned system.
1) Check my altitude to establish my priorities.
2) If time and altitude permit evaluate the condition of the canopy. If there is in fact structural damage I use a very simple mathematical equasation: How many parachutes do I have? 2. How many lives do I have? 1. Simple. I trust my PD reserve and my rigger, I do not trust that the structural damage will not get worse at 500 feet! That is just me though, most skydivers believe it is perfectly acceptable to land a damaged canopy if it is controllable. I think the most important things are altitude awareness and not being hesitant to use your reserve and trust it if you have doubt that you can safely land your canopy. How much doubt? Also dependent on the individual.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[dragonfyr 0]

On a jump several years ago I had a very hard opening. It was one of the hardest ones I ever had so I spent extra time checking my canopy looking for broken lines or damage.

I didn't see anything outright but noticed a slight "flutter" at the tail of my center cell that didn't seem right. I continued to fly around and noticed the flutter kept occurring, but I couldn't seem to spot anything else. Did controllability checks, no problems.

I continued to check my canopy and then the sun got positioned over the top of the canopy to show a huge tear in the top skin of the center cell (about 3 feet long and across the whole cell) with material flapping all around. All I can say is THAT is an unnerving sight.

Checked my altimeter and was at 1400'. I decided I did not want to try and land with it in case it decided to fold up on me or tear further near the ground so went to the red and silver.

If I didn't notice the flutter, I probably would have landed it without realizing it until I got on the ground. Chances are pretty good I could have landed it just fine, but I didn't want to take the chance.

Don

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

On a jump several years ago I had a very hard opening. It was one of the hardest ones I ever had so I spent extra time checking my canopy looking for broken lines or damage.

I didn't see anything outright but noticed a slight "flutter" at the tail of my center cell that didn't seem right. I continued to fly around and noticed the flutter kept occurring, but I couldn't seem to spot anything else. Did controllability checks, no problems.

I continued to check my canopy and then the sun got positioned over the top of the canopy to show a huge tear in the top skin of the center cell (about 3 feet long and across the whole cell) with material flapping all around. All I can say is THAT is an unnerving sight.

Checked my altimeter and was at 1400'. I decided I did not want to try and land with it in case it decided to fold up on me or tear further near the ground so went to the red and silver.

If I didn't notice the flutter, I probably would have landed it without realizing it until I got on the ground. Chances are pretty good I could have landed it just fine, but I didn't want to take the chance.

Don

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There is a huge difference between holes in top skins and holes in bottom skins.
I have softly landed several tandem mains with bottom skins torn from nose to tail.
No big deal!
However, one time I saw an 18 inch (500 cm) hole in my aft, center top skin, The torn canopy looked great, turned left when asked, turned right when asked, but when I practiced a flare (at 3000') the center cell folded up. I cutaway that one quickly.
The key is to do a controlability check shortly after opening, while you still have enough altitude to deploy a reserve.