Airman1270 0 #1 August 17, 2011 During a recent visit to a well-known southeast DZ I saw tandems doing low-altitude 90 degree hook turns. The landings I witnessed were soft & nearly always right on target. If the tandem manufacturers & the community of experienced TI's don't have a problem with this then I won't make a fuss, but I can't help thinking this is not the wisest decision one can make. It seems to increase the risk of an accident without offering any added benefit to the student's experience. In addition, I fear this might make an impression on the new jumper who thinks this is the way landings "should" be. Might this be creating an environment which can breed future landing accidents? Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 August 17, 2011 I'm personally not a fan. Too much can go wrong too badly and end up hurting yourself. More importantly, you could end up hurting your student. I even put the hook turn with the brake-surge method. I really don't like either of them, except that I would argue that using a hook turn is more for the TI's ego than anything. I'm a big fan of a gentle carving turn to final to generate a little extra speed for your tandem, on those days you need it. The tandem pair never get out from under the canopy and the TI can flare to land at any point. When I want to go swoop, I jump my velo. When I want to introduce someone to skydiving safely, I take that person on a tandem.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #3 August 17, 2011 Read the 19 Commandments of Tandem Parachuting signed by ALL three of the US Tandem System Manufacturers. They do not condone Tandem Swooping. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #4 August 17, 2011 Swooping tandems insures one thing - a passenger will eventually get hurt - or worse - needlessly. But we don't seem to learn lesson in this sport any more, so I suppose it doesn't really matter what I think. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #5 August 17, 2011 Why not ask the S&TA at the DZ, the DZO or DZM, or the Regional Director? If the TI's are truly doing something wrong,then those ultimately are the opinions that matter. topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #6 August 17, 2011 QuoteWhy not ask the S&TA at the DZ, the DZO or DZM, or the Regional Director? If the TI's are truly doing something wrong,then those ultimately are the opinions that matter. top Well, top, it seems that some people think that S&TA's are safety and training advisors. Apparently there is not a lot of real ones out here. Having a title and doing the job are two different things. Having a title and being allowed to do your job are two different things.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #7 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhy not ask the S&TA at the DZ, the DZO or DZM, or the Regional Director? If the TI's are truly doing something wrong,then those ultimately are the opinions that matter. top Well, top, it seems that some people think that S&TA's are safety and training advisors. Apparently there is not a lot of real ones out here. Having a title and doing the job are two different things. Having a title and being allowed to do your job are two different things. That was why I gave him several different people to approach. topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #8 August 17, 2011 270 turn followed out by trimming out on rear is not cool???Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spootch 0 #9 August 18, 2011 no you should only do a 180 to avoid the blind spot. sheesh!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #10 August 18, 2011 no, 180 screws up the pattern. with 270 you stay with the pattern.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #11 August 18, 2011 Quote The landings I witnessed were soft & nearly always right on target. Nuff said right there. Correct me if I'm wrong OP but, I'm pretty sure you speak of my crew. 90 degree to final is acceptable. A turn is only "low" if it does not allow enough altitude for the canopy to recover on it's own arc without input from toggles or rears. I set the bar high for all tandem staff and the rules are VERY clear. Deviation from our standards gets you time off or worse, you go away. As stated by others, you could have spoken to any of us in person about your concerns. We are normal people and skydivers just like you. What ever happened to having beers and talking while looking one in the eye? Blues, Bob.................................. Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #12 August 18, 2011 What ever happened to having beers and talking while looking one in the eye? Considering your avatar that there is funnyHe may be talking about Z-Hills also Bob. You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #13 August 19, 2011 QuoteQuote The landings I witnessed were soft & nearly always right on target. Nuff said right there. Correct me if I'm wrong OP but, I'm pretty sure you speak of my crew. 90 degree to final is acceptable. A turn is only "low" if it does not allow enough altitude for the canopy to recover on it's own arc without input from toggles or rears. I set the bar high for all tandem staff and the rules are VERY clear. Deviation from our standards gets you time off or worse, you go away. As stated by others, you could have spoken to any of us in person about your concerns. We are normal people and skydivers just like you. What ever happened to having beers and talking while looking one in the eye? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Didn't think it was important enough to make a fuss. As a visitor & a non-TI I'm ready to accept advice from those more experienced. At the same time I'd never seen this before & thought it might warrant a brief comment. If I'd actually been hanging with everyone after hours I might have brought it up. I'm sure no one would have been offended. Re rules: At check in I was shown DZ procedures. These included an admonition that everyone land in the same direction. Yet several times I saw folks land both up- & downwind on the same load. Again, there was no compromise of safety. The people doing this stayed clear of each other. No close calls. Yet, as a new visitor it was made clear to me that we were supposed to all land in the same direction. Just curious. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bluetwo 0 #14 October 23, 2011 I've seen some pretty nice slide-in's but I wouldn't have called those swoops at all. It seems like TI's probably experience variable others don't, like wing loadings not being what they expected. How does wing loading affect final?_______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bluetwo 0 #14 October 23, 2011 I've seen some pretty nice slide-in's but I wouldn't have called those swoops at all. It seems like TI's probably experience variable others don't, like wing loadings not being what they expected. How does wing loading affect final?_______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
