Am I a bad packer? Or is my canopy a born SLAMMER?

[Bodhisattva420 0]

I have a '96 Triathlon with brand new lines (& line mod) and it just seems to slam my @$$ every 25 jumps or so. On most jumps it opens fine; I do have to split roll the nose though. Anyone else have a Triathlon (160 in particular) back in the 90's? I had the people at Aerodyne test jump it when I sent it in for a reline and they said it was fine. However, I've met one guy at the DZ that said he blew up his Triathlon back in the 90's (lots of broken lines) and my rigger said that he saw a bunch of them blow up as well. I know they still make the Triathlon, and most of what I've read online has been positive. So what is it? Am I just a shitty packer? Or do 7 cells just open faster than the 9 cells I used to jump before I purchased own canopy (I jumped my own pack jobs when I was renting gear and the Sabre II I used to rent opened much slower and even had some slider hang up) Any feedback would be appreciated!

[shah269 0]

Only put on like 40 jumps on the one I have and I bought her with 50 jumps.
It's a 210 and she opens really slow! We are talking....700+ ft slow.
Like I have time to look around grab the rears and start thinking about the meaning of life...S...L....O....W

I'm sure the older guys can help out more but that's what I have.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[AggieDave 6]

In reality, it is probably both. Some old Tris are know to open like crap. You haven't been packing all that long, so there may be some issues there. However, have your rigger check the lineset. If it is out of trim it can and will be inconsistent, including the openings.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[monkycndo 0]

The Trathlon was designed to do it all. And do it all badly.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[ciscobird 0]

I own one made in 1994, same size (160).

When I first started, I would pack it on the floor and would constantly get hard openings, sometimes worse than usual (enough to burn a couple of tiny holes where the closing rubber on the bag come in contact with and knock the wind out of myself as well).

I attributed it to my less than ideal packing because once a rigger did it for me and the opening was so soft I couldn't believe it was the same canopy.

Once I felt confident enough to pro pack, the openings improved drastically. After experimenting with several different (minor) techniques (trials and errors), I finally got it dialed.

It might help to roll the nose and tail more than usual. Be sure to quarter and tuck the slider in.

I remember now, what helped some is when it's rolled and on the floor in a upside-down triangle, fold each side in twice neatly as possible. Tuck and fold in the bag. There is a link to a website with photos showing the procedure. I forgot the name of the technique, Womack something... Named after a guy who came up with it... I'm sure someone will come along who knows what I'm talking about.

Overall, it's a good all-around canopy. It's a good flare teaching canopy because once you make the transition to a 9-cell, flaring is much easier.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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I remember now, what helped some is when it's rolled and on the floor in a upside-down triangle, fold each side in twice neatly as possible. Tuck and fold in the bag. There is a link to a website with photos showing the procedure. I forgot the name of the technique, Womack something... Named after a guy who came up with it... I'm sure someone will come along who knows what I'm talking about.

Wolmari Pack.

http://www.parasale.com/wolmari/wpages/wolmarpack.html

[shah269 0]

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I remember now, what helped some is when it's rolled and on the floor in a upside-down triangle, fold each side in twice neatly as possible. Tuck and fold in the bag. There is a link to a website with photos showing the procedure. I forgot the name of the technique, Womack something... Named after a guy who came up with it... I'm sure someone will come along who knows what I'm talking about.

Wolmari Pack.

http://www.parasale.com/wolmari/wpages/wolmarpack.html

Oh wow! I was doing that! Well except I was folding the edges back and under.
Flatten out a nice triangle, get all the air out, grab right corner and fold it under, flatten it, then the same thing with the left than the S folds.

I'm going to have to give that fold in front thing a shot.

But how do you keep that roll to become unrolled?
When I fold under, I'm folding over the roll which allows for some better material control. Right?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[ciscobird 0]

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But how do you keep that roll to become unrolled?
When I fold under, I'm folding over the roll which allows for some better material control. Right?

Use your knee or whatever body part you have available to keep things from unraveling or coming apart, even your forehead if necessary. Be assertive as well, maintain a good grip throughout, too.

[ciscobird 0]

Here's a drawing I hijacked from another thread...

[ryoder 1,590]

My Triathlon was slamming the hell out of me 50% of the time until I put an oversized slider on it.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[riggerrob 643]

Funny!

Triathlon was one of the first sliderized sport canopies designed for softer openings.
I think was driven by the rise in popularity of freefall video.
Remember that the Tri was introduced during the early 1990s, just as tandem became the dominant form of first jump and video cameras got small enough that you could strap the entire photographic aparatus to one helmet.

When Triathlon was first introduce, everyone was raving about how soft they opened!
... especially freefall videographers ...
Tris opened way softer than Sabre 1 canopies.

All the other manufacturers tried to rush ZP canopies onto the market, but they soon found out that merely cutting ZP fabric (with the old patterns for F-111) resulted in canopies that were "less forgiving of sloppy packing!"

Any canopy will open hard it the slider is not hard up against the stops and the line stows are not tight.

[riggerrob 643]

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The Trathlon was designed to do it all. And do it all badly.

..........................................................................

I disagree!

Triathlon does everything it was designed for reasonably well.
Triathlon is basically an early 1980s, 7-cell, updated with more durable materials and softer openings.

Just remember what skydivers were asking from main canopies during the early 1990s.
Back during the 1980s, we used the same 7-cell canopies (F-111 fabric) for everything from stacking (Canopy Formations) to BASE jumping.
They were available in sizes ranging from 175 to 275 square feet.
All the third-generation square reserves (Fury, Hobbit, Laser, Raven, Swift Plus, etc.) were just 7-cell sport mains with minor changes.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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Any canopy will open hard it the slider is not hard up against the stops and the line stows are not tight.

I assume you are talking about locking stows only here, right?

Other line stows are not important in reducing opening shock, they just keep the lines ordered until the bag is at line stretch.

[motomike 1]

Chrispie..... are you having line dump? How are you stowing lines?

[mjosparky 4]

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Chrispie..... are you having line dump? How are you stowing lines?

How would you describe “line dump”?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[motomike 1]

Whenever your lines are insufficiently tighten to slow down the deployment process.

[tkhayes 348]

your canopy is 15 years old. It was not a great canopy even in its day.

Upgrade. We have learned a lot since 1996.

[D22369 0]

The Trathlon was designed to do it all. And do it all badly. ***

sorry m8, I call bullshit on this, and I have called it on many many people over the years.

I have jumped most of the sizes of triath that were offered, it was one of my first picks for tight demo's or casual crw - hell it was my canopy I came back on after fracturing my back since they are a very stable canopy and unless its outta trim or set up with the wrong size slider the openings were soft - in the many I have jumped I only came across one that consistently opened brisk to very hard - the owner finally sent it in and it came back fixed.

I have heard it all, diathalons - donothingalons...etc

things it wont do...

1) swoop... nuh uh, very short swoops, however they were entertaining anyhow even if they ended 1/2 to 2/3 of the way across the pond

2) land themselves... I have heard so many say what crap landing these canopy's give.... Serious?? guess I just got lucky with all the soft landings then - more likely these people merely need to learn to land a standard 7 cell.


I was at kapowsin a number of years ago listening to several other jumpers bash triathlons and asked why they thought this, they all had heard it said by more experienced jumpers and were merely regurgitating the information - none had even a single jump on them.

they do nothing exceptional, they do nothing horrible, they are merely a good beginning to mid level canopy choice for up and coming pilots.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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Whenever your lines are insufficiently tighten to slow down the deployment process.

This is a total myth. Line stows are not there to slow the deployment. There are there to keep the lines ordered during packing and deployment.

Think stowless bags. Does everyone with them get slammed every time? Answer: No.

Line dump does not cause hard openings (although it may cause other issues such as knots). Bag strip on the other hand (where the deployment bag comes off the canopy before line-stretch most certainly can cause slammers.

[motomike 1]

I disagree.... what is the purpose of direct control with stowless bag or BASE?

[DaVinciflies 0]

I don't know what "direct control" is, but when I pack my skydiving rig I have all but the locking stows totally loose (so the lines can move around inside the elastic bands) and I don't get hard openings.

The pocket on a stowless bag, if that is what you are referring to by direct control, is there to feed the lines out in a orderly fashion so they don't get all tangled up - NOT to reduce opening shock.

[Ronaldo 0]

IMO a canopy should not take a lot of tricks to open well (as long as you do the basics). The key is to make sure the slider grommets are against the stops and stay there until opening (on every pack job). Do this consistently and the openings should be so. My method: after flaking, place the slider firmly against the stops (I like to align the grommets flat like in the picture). Bring the center of the tail up (while holding D lines in place to avoid messing up the folds) and start rolling it really tight for a couple of inches. The tighter the roll, the better. Use the folded edges of the tail to start the roll as they’ll help keep it tight and in place. The roll should begin more like tight folds. If you do it correctly the lines will be squeezed up and look like a thick cord. Now, while holding it in place with your thumb start rolling (or folding) the rest of the tail on the same direction while keeping tension on the fabric. This method will lock the slider grommets tight to the stops. Just make sure you don’t mess it up while bagging later. I took a couple of pictures while packing tonight, hope it helps.
BTW, the canopy on the pictures is a well jumped Tri 160 (DOM 96) which opens soft and on heading every time. When I bought it the line set was almost unairworthy so I replaced it with continuous HMA before even putting a jump on the original one. Sadly, a friend of mine bought an used (with much less jumps) Tri 175 with still shiny white lines (not much out of trim as I checked) and it was slamming him so hard he returned it to the dealer.

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[ineed2fly 0]

There are the vector 2 stow bags with 2 locking stows, and there are true stowless bags using either magnets or tuck tabs to close the bag with no stows at all. Direct slider control on a base canopy is actually rubber banding part of the slider to I believe a D line (I don't do this myself) and indirect slider control is taking a bight of the lines which stages the deployment (keeps the slider from creeping down before the canopy hits line stretch)

"As soon as you're born you start dying. So you might as well, have a good time."
-CAKE

I'm crazy not stupid. There is a difference.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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IMO a canopy should not take a lot of tricks to open well (as long as you do the basics). The key is to make sure the slider grommets are against the stops and stay there until opening (on every pack job). Do this consistently and the openings should be so.

Wise words.

[Martini 0]

Acting on the assumption that you are indeed a bad packer you might find it useful to get a canopy that is forgiving of your pack jobs.

Personally I loved my Tri even though it wasn't really so great just because I was used to it, said I'd never sell it. Now I'd never own another one. One man's cake is another man's poison though.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............