Tell me non UK skydiving isn't like this

[mr2mk1g 10]

I was paying £3.50 a jump in Russia with an extra 50p per pack job. Call it a shade over $6 all in. And that out of a Helicopter. That was a couple of years ago mind - no idea what it is now with exchange rate changes.

Re the jumping more when on overseas trips than at home - I think any stats like that are always going to be fatally skewed by the fact that when you go away on a jumping holiday you're there to do just that - you jump more than you ordinarily would back home because that's the point of the trip. Plus, there's the tendency to view it as trying to make back the cost of your air fare there by jumping as much at the reduced overseas rate. We've all told ourselves the old lie "if I’m saving £5 per jump and the flight's £400, I only have to do 80 jumps to make it a free holiday... right... right?" .

[Remster 30]

Damm... It's almost worth it to ship my main to be packed every jump to Russia!

Yeah, Russia is pretty dammed cheap too.

And I wasnt trying to make an overall ranking of where to go for cheap jumps.

Remster

[Tatetatetate 0]

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BPA= Ban Parachuting Altogether

What's your experience of the BPA Grimmie or are you just repeating a tired cliché?[/

None, darn it, you caught me.

The way that the BPA keep on introducing more and more regulations which a cynic may well be justified to think is a money making exercise with safety utilised as an excuse.

Which does not affect any of the BPA council and or the staff at DZs, but affects people at the bottom. And thus pulls up the ladder after they've gone up it....

And yet the BPA wonders as to why they are unable to retain members.

[cpoxon 0]

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BPA= Ban Parachuting Altogether

What's your experience of the BPA Grimmie or are you just repeating a tired cliché?[/

None, darn it, you caught me.

The way that the BPA keep on introducing more and more regulations which a cynic may well be justified to think is a money making exercise with safety utilised as an excuse.

How does the BPA make money out of more regulation? Improved safety, leads to a reduction in incidents, which results in reduced insurance premiums saving everyone money.

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Which does not affect any of the BPA council and or the staff at DZs, but affects people at the bottom. And thus pulls up the ladder after they've gone up it....

You have a very narrow view. I can think of rules that affect those "up the ladder" too.

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And yet the BPA wonders as to why they are unable to retain members.

The BPA are well aware of the issues affecting membership numbers.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[Joellercoaster 6]

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The way that the BPA keep on introducing more and more regulations which a cynic may well be justified to think is a money making exercise with safety utilised as an excuse.

Tate.

What are you talking about?

I'm not affiliated with the BPA any more than you are,but I've done most of my jumping here, and I have literally no idea what you mean by this.

Care to fill us in?

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Tatetatetate 0]

C'mon you have your own website search 'retention' look for the long posts dont wanna

2009 Danger of A certs jumping alone ANSWER- make them pay more. 2010 FS1 'clarification' jump with buds = FS1 = more tickets = more coaching costs + more money to DZOs FS1 1997-2010 was OK for 2 ways why not ok now. 2011 FS1 - more pin jumps = more tickets = more coaching costs = more money to DZOs WS1 - min 200 jumps = more tickets = more coaching costs = more money to DZOs. Did it affect skygods? did it bollox everything the BPA does only affects n00bs.

Get your FS1 then

I'm lucky enough to be important to my boss to take mega time off I can travel anywhere and it's hard to find coaches coaches are like rocking horse sh1t in fact some of them are sh1t 2 expensive coach jumps (£21+£21+£10+£5) I spent alone.
Jumped out and they dissappeared. Three coach jumps I had I was brie'd on the 2 minute call before the door opened WTF? No video no debrief other than try again.

Pre clartifcation n00bs got invites to scrambles, could practice cheaply...

now? PAY UP.

The BPA has its fist up its arse wondering why so few renew their BPA did the BPA bother to put in the suggested stuff did they bollox.

You think its just me being an arse, go listen to the n00bs talk amongst themselves this is the feeling I get at many DZs... nah donna wanna talk outside me clicky group.

Nawww oh look we have another fist where shall we put it?

[Joellercoaster 6]

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FS1 'clarification' jump with buds = FS1 = more tickets = more coaching costs + more money to DZOs

If you think the FS1 scheme results in money to DZOs, then you have even less idea of how skydiving works than I thought.

Tandems. AFF. These are the things that make money. Fun jumpers are worth a lot less, sometimes even costing money. But just assume that some of your 20 quid jump ticket does somehow end up in the DZO's pocket:

Experienced jumpers taking time to brief newbies, causes them to jump less. This means less money. Extending the time that A license people are in a position of dependence (pre-FS1) causes them to jump less. This means less money.

Plenty of dropzones subsidise coach tickets. This means - wait for it - less money.

Add to that coaches spending their own money to get to the DZ, to do the same jump over and over (and over and over) instead of ripping it up on the fun ones? That's a pretty substantial outlay by a lot of people to make the FS1 scheme work.

The fact that you would see all this as some kind of conspiracy on the part of people who are sacrificing a fair bit in order to help you, makes me wonder about other situations you claim to have been the victim in.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Tatetatetate 0]

It is not just me thinking this have a look on your ebsite about it

http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?/topic/14277-the-dangers-of-allowing-a-licence-holders-to-jump-solo/

I dont have time to debate this and it is ground been over many times as above & tbh the BPA doesn't give a damn anyway

[landseaandsky 0]

Tate,

You persistantly slag off the BPA and any drop zone in the UK you grace with your presence.

I have read your posts on here and know for a fact that some of the comments you have made are completely untrue.

All of us have had to go through the FS1 progression and most of the coaches only ask you to pay their slot, hey, if you were a little nicer to people some fun jumpers would offer to do some 2 ways with you.

Instead of pissing and moaning on forums, why don't you start being a tad more proactive, even on shit days at dropzones there are usually a good number of experienced guys to chat to about different things and most are more than happy to pass on what they know and help you.

[demoknite 0]

I dont agree with the weather sentiment, but slightly agree with some of the other things. And in the UK, if you say anything about the system or XX1, people sort of do the finger in the ear lalalalala thing, or the just shut up and color thing which is what youve gotten on this board. And Ive heard the sentiment at the drop zones where Ive jumped. All the coaches are on the staff cranking out tandems, aff, and video slots. And some of the videographers who are great flyers aren't technically coaches or instructors so cant actually coach you. Im moving countries, so whatever. Flame away.

[Joellercoaster 6]

I'm not saying shut up and colour - people are entitled to grumble (hey I do), and there are sometimes even constructive suggestions (in the linked discussion on UKS, I think there were some).

I'm just calling bullshit on the idea that it's some money-making conspiracy by the DZOs, which is probably the stupidest thing I will read today.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[demoknite 0]

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I'm not saying shut up and colour - people are entitled to grumble (hey I do), and there are sometimes even constructive suggestions (in the linked discussion on UKS, I think there were some).

I'm just calling bullshit on the idea that it's some money-making conspiracy by the DZOs, which is probably the stupidest thing I will read today.

I also dont agree that its a money making scheme. You always get the "at our drop zone coaching is free". But the truth is, at most drop zones, its not and there arent enough coaches on a given weekend at one's chosen drop zone to get coaching, thus having new jumpers doing solos and not progressing.
And when you finally get coaching you have to do a three point three way so there is two slots plus fees then the four point four way which is 3 slots plus fees. Not necessarily money in the DZOs pocket, but definitely money out of the jumper's.
And I too have come across the "stopping for a cup of tea" syndrome at the few dz's ive been to. I know there are engine shut down rules and so forth but some places arent as efficient as they could be.
And as small as the UK, its actually quite big. If you live in Kent, you would be hard pressed to "just pop up" to Hibaldstow for the weekend especially with the unpredictable weather. That means people stick to their home DZ more so than they otherwise might.
And to the one guy saying something about going to the DZ every weekend. Remember people have jobs, families, lives where they cant spend all weekend every weekend at the DZ. I live a distance away from a DZ that unless the weather is forecasted to be perfect, its not economically viable for me to make the trip. id rather spend time with my kids than people at the DZ on a bad weather day. Im not in to the typical all or nothing skydiving mentality.

[landseaandsky 0]

I'm definately not saying you need to be at a dz every weekend, far from it. And I'm not an all or nothing person either.

What I was trying to say is that the original poster mentioned he has been on dzs on pap weather days and where is the harm in chatting to people and asking questions?

And some people who are asked on an FS1 3 OR 4 way jump do not expect the FS student to pay their slot, I would never ask anyone to pay my slot and I know allot of friends that are the same.

[dninness 4]

To the OP: no, non-UK skydiving is nothing like what you describe.

Most people don't live 3 hrs from a DZ. Even in my state, which has no DZ of its own, 90% of the population is within an hour of at least 1 of the 3 DZs in neighboring states.

However, living 3 hrs from *any* site for recreational activity is really going to limit your chances and choices. Nature of the beast. Whether its skydiving, bungee jumping, mini-golf or bowling.

I had a student several years ago who complained loudly about not being able to get up in the air and get his license. Problem was, he lived an hour away and he would show up at 3 or 4 in the afternoon, after participating in his other recreational activities, get his name up on the board, and then bitch mightily when he wasn't the next student in the air. (Nevermind the 3 hr wind hold between 11 and 2 that caused every other student to have to sit, or caused us to be a little backed up for gear) He'd stick around for an hour, then leave in a huff. He finally informed everybody he was going to go jump at a nearby DZ because they'd accommodate him. That was, as I recall 2008. He still does not have a license.

Go figure.

As I tell my students "If you're not here, you can't jump. Thats how it works."



;

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[Tatetatetate 0]

nicely put on both posts

[Tatetatetate 0]

There is only so much you can ask and talk, talk is just talk it is not cost or the doing. Its more the BPA unilaterally made this change not an STC change it was one bloke on the BPA. In doing so the BPA completely forgot or neglect DZ ops reality as demoknife says coaches do video are tandem masters or instructors. The unpaid for slot only coaching is last on their list of priorities as above coaches are like rocking horse sh1t. Cant find them at Hib a lot of the time how does this bode for smaller DZs then

Stick with it! I have done over time I am starting to question if this is a hopeless cause I qualifid about a year ago now. I used to be diehard I get accused of living at the DZ id pester for coach jumps constantly Ive waited 12 hours for a single coach jump. 109 solo lobs later Im starting to ask questions the BPA and up the ladder types dont wanna hear they just say STFU do you think I just woke up one day and think BPA those utter b'stards I hate them or that my experiences have colord my view somehow nah I just wokeup one day and became a haterofcourse

Ask yourselves if somebody like myself who gets to 109 lobs in a year and this implies I've been to the DZ a few times is losing the faith then what of the other 20K students behind me? How many others would ask such questions or just not turn up next week at the DZ the the next week then the next week after that then the next week after that

Your BPA is dying and you seem to be quite blaise about it happy even cus I iz elite init lulz!
n00bs ****'em PerhapsPerhapsPerhapsPerhapsPerhapsPerhapsPerhapsPerhaps you have forgotten what it is like to be new

[babz 0]

It wasn't the decision of one man who brought the FS1 ruling about, it was clarifying the meaning of the rule agreed on by the STC years ago.

Coaches can be hard to find at dropzones, the key is to get there early and speak to manifest and ask them to put out a call for coaches. If there are no coaches present then it can suck, but its the nature of it.

A coach tends not to get paid for coached jumps, and may have other plans for their day.

The whole FS1 argument is really about safety, there have been plenty of incidents with none FS1 jumpers in the past.

The BPA syllabus for your A certificate doesn't include in air coaching for jumping with other folks, so you need to learn then demonstrate that you can be safe in the air before any CCI would let you loose.

I am curious to why you seem to move around DZ's so regularly, consistency at a dropzone will mean that your more likely to get to know other jumpers who will help you out.

[Tatetatetate 0]

I never said FS1 sucks and I understand the need for it

I said inthe above post the BPA can set rules and regs all they want. Where they fail is they forget there are no tools in which to pass such regs and rules.

I.e. the total lack of coaches who don't camera fly who aren't Tandem masters, who aren't instructors you know coaches who actually COACH

If there are no coaches who actually coach then the hurdle of FS1 even though it is probably an inch tall suddenly becomes insurmountable.

The old get to the DZ early doesn't work the olde stay at the DZ all week doesn't work, the old prebook coaches doens't work as some Tandem asks for a camera and you get bumped.. Making arrangements ith coaches doesnt work Ive made arrangements fourtimes and I get bumped for camera work on the day

[landseaandsky 0]

I am not getting into an argument over the BPA with you, the BPA have rules we follow them, such is life. What ever communication problems you have, well that's for you to sort out.

It puzzles me that most of the "noobs" as you keep calling yourself (something I would never call someone) manage to get coaching and progress through FS1, why is there such a hardship for you?

I have never once called myself elite and neither do I think or class myself as such, quite the opposite in fact. And neither have I forgot what its like to be new, buy hey, maybe I just got lucky in my fs1 progression.

[Tatetatetate 0]

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I am curious to why you seem to move around DZ's so regularly, consistency at a dropzone will mean that your more likely to get to know other jumpers who will help you out.

Im a firm believer of voting with my wallet. If a DZ after many frutiless attempts does not supply me with what I want, then I vote with my wallet. I dont go to resturants that give me food poisoning, nor do I go to shoddy mechanics

Your argument is also flawed, other jumpers are all well and fine and may help help in what way exactly ? They can't take me on coach jumps, so how can they help me with the problem of lack of coaches. They can't so your point is moot.

[babz 0]

Then you should speak to a BPA council member with your proposals to improve things. Speak to your CCI who sits on the STC and see if he'll back a rule change on the grounds of coaches.

Complaining on the Internet with no plan of action, does nothing but make people sick of the sound of your voice.

[edited after a second post whilst writing this]
Other people around the DZ can and do help out newer jumpers with their FS1 when it comes to 3 and 4 way parts. Often people pay their own slots when helping out friends with their Fs1 coached jumps. This was my experience when I did my 3 and 4 ways.

Moving around with your wallet is a laudable idea, however your hurting yourself more than hurting the DZO. (1 Fun jumper really doesnt make much difference to them).

From your posts, you live in the North West (ish), so I'm guessing Mankix isn't unobtainable for you. Why not get in touch with them, see what FS coaching you can get in there and see if the coaches do in air coaching too. (I believe Simon Catherine does some), then speak to the coach directly and try and agree to do some coaching at the DZ.

The tunnel will help you get your FS1 without repeat jumps (hopefully) and you'll pass the obstacle of FS1.

[piisfish 140]

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Im a firm believer of voting with my wallet. If a DZ after many frutiless attempts does not supply me with what I want, then I vote with my wallet

move. jump. make silence. be happy

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[demoknite 0]

Pretty much everything I typed in my second post people came in here and said. "Everyone else has done it". "Stop complaining". "I would never charge for a coach jump."

I got my FS1, bit only after 90 solos, some bandit jumps, and a stint at Eloy. I just got lucky one weekend where there werent that many tandems booked in, the weather was a bit suspect per the operations manual, and the CCI wanted to keep the plane going instead of closing down to watch football. And I talked the CCI into just letting me do the three way and the four way. Other's milage surely varies.
And Im sure the BPA wants to hear from the 80 jump wonders.
Once you get the FS1 sticker and realize that you will only get 3-5 jumps a day on the best of days as a fun only jumper with one rig then jumping in the UK is really good. Most DZs have some on the best views at altitude and under canopy in the world and most fun jumpers are super friendly.
Funny how if you have the FF1 sticker without FS1 you can still jump with other people.

[shropshire 0]

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Q: Why do people take an instant dislike to me?

A: Cuz it saves time

Attitude is everything

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[JackC1 0]

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Im a firm believer of voting with my wallet. If a DZ after many frutiless attempts does not supply me with what I want, then I vote with my wallet. I dont go to resturants that give me food poisoning, nor do I go to shoddy mechanics

Slight flaw in that plan. Many instructors/coaches are self-employed and have little to do with the DZ's business. They often have other paying customers and don't sit around waiting for someone to coach for free. Other coaches do it simply for the love of it and also have their own commitments with teams etc. How will voting with your wallet affect the coach or get you an FS1 when the coach more than likely gets no money out of it anyway?