Smoke ?

[bowlan 0]

sorry for the web site.
system crashed and it seems everything went south.
we are trying to repair the web site but this looks like it will take some time.

[bowlan 0]

burn time depends on smoke compositions.
eny of these cans will technicly hold 4 or even 5 minuts of smoke time.
it simply depends on the composition used.
but you have to consider the more comp that is pressed into the casing the longer the burn the hoter the casing will become.
that may not be a consern with aircraft smoke but if its straped to your leg the colder the burn the safer it is.
it all comes down to the amount of time in smoke you actully need,will two minuts be enough or do you intend on straping glider wings to your arms.
basicly how long does it take to land after the jump.
do you need the cans to continue smoking after you have landed or should they burn out just before you land.
we can pack enough comp in a M18 to burn for 4 minuts,but is that actully needed.
another thing to consider,i know a lot of you have probably never manufactured smoke compositions before or you wouldent question a comp price of 10 to 15 dollars each.
but when it comes to prices we all like the best for the least but what brings up the retail price for any smoke cartridge that is made in the u.s.is chemical cost.
the prices for u.s.chemicals are very high to say the least and when it comes to color smoke comps the dye is the highest of all the chemicals used.
dyes is you are lucky enough to convince the supplier to sell to you are sold by the 55 pound drum.
or if you are convincing as i am you could convince the supplier to sell you color dyes by the 10 pound containers at around 30 dollars per,pound.
and remember the dye doesent go a long way because you are mixing 50 percent by weight of dye to composition.
an example is this.
if you have a cool burn smoke composition and
if you bought the chemicals direct from a chemical supplier two to one you will need to buy a minium order of 50lbs.of each chemical or they will hang up on you.
if you buy your smoke comp as a kit from firefox plan on spending $20.00 for each ankle because to fill an M18 it will cost over $20.00ech in chemicals per,smoker plus shipping plus the cost of a pull cord igniter kit plus you will need to buy the oxidizer seperate to make the igniters,also dont forget the casings those are also extra.
Slotperfect: please PM the author for pricing information

[voodew1 0]

Duration is important to me as I fly a wingsuit with smoke which gives me 2 to 3 minutes of freefall time
Durations of longer than 1 minute would be important when using smoke under canopy where 3 to 5 minutes would be great

Size is also important as it needs to fit the brackets made for myself and those who have purchased the brackets from me.

Not have to buy by the case would be great also which I have to do to spread out the cost of the hazmat charge per can ---- I realize you have this portion taken care of

Safety wouldn't be a bad thing either

Thanks

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[bowlan 0]

we have completed the legal M18 milatery smoke grenade.
lab testing will be complete the first week of 07
no baffels no ports just flame-less magic.
www.flamelesssmokegrenades.com

[slotperfect 7]

Gathering information to improve a product in development is fine. Advertising the product for sale (posting the price and where to go to order) is not. Advertising is prohibited by the Forum Rules.

Because there is so much useful conversation in this thread about smoke, I am leaving it up . . . but I have removed the advertising content.

Arrive Safely

John

[bowlan 0]

yes well somewere on one of these threads somebody mentioned that an m18 was selling for 35 to 45 dollars each.
and unless you are educated on the fact that you no longer have to continue to be ripped on with high prices you will never know will you.
and one more thing i may have listed the price but they are not for sale so in fact i was not advertising now was i was stating what they could be sold for.
this world is run by the dollar and when someone finds a demand and has the product to fill it the chances are 98 percent that they will do their best to pull every buck they can out of that product.

[slotperfect 7]

Quote

yes well somewere on one of these threads somebody mentioned that an m18 was selling for 35 to 45 dollars each.

If this was an individual advertising them for sale, or an individual directly associated with a company (e.g. owner, dealer, etc.) please provide me with the link. If someone was simply referring to the price of M18 smoke on the market, that is fine (the reason I left it in your posts).

Arrive Safely

John

[bowlan 0]

i developted the new m18 and i was hopeing for some input in regard to the price that i had listed.
my thought was 14 plus change but i have no idea as to what you or another member would pay for the m18.
these wont be ready til after the new year as they are still in testing.
you tell me what whould they sell for 14 plus change or would the buyer rather pay 35 bucks each.
if you have used or bought them before you should have a good idea as to what a fare price would be.
when these are ready to go i could charge 30 bucks each but i would not be able to sleep at night.
give me your input

[slotperfect 7]

I don't do demos any more. When I did it was as a member of the Golden Knights, where we of course got our smoke through the Army supply system. I don't know what their unit cost is.

Arrive Safely

John

[bowlan 0]

we are not interested in shipping demos.
and have desidded to let ASL technologies handle all paintball related smoke.
so the price for the M18s will be set by them.

[slotperfect 7]

Umm that is demonstration jumps I was speaking of. Thus the need for smoke.

Arrive Safely

John

[bowlan 0]

slag not always true.
it depends on the binder or should i say if a binder us used in the smoke blend.
if a good binder is used in the blending process then the binder will hold the burnt composition in a solid mass durring and after burn.
this stops the compound from spitting sparks or ash during the burn.

[bowlan 0]

now there is a m-18 smomke grenade available for civilian use flame less smoke grenades .com

[bowlan 0]

Grenade (with fuse): Model .............................M-18 Body ..................................Sheet metal Weight
...............................19 Oz Length ...............................5.75 in. Diameter ............................2.50 in.
Color...................................As required by MIL-STD 129 Packing .............................. 16 per case box.
Filler: Type ..................................Smoke composition Weight................................11 Oz
Fuse: Model(s) .............................M201A1 of similar Type ................Pyrotechnic delay igniting- trade secret
Primer.................................trade secreat..................Delay time .........................3 seconds
Weight................................19 oz Length ...............................3.9 in. Color...................................Gray or olive drab
w/ black markings Safety device .....................Pull ring and safety pin 2-min burn,70,000cf

[droquette 0]

so has anybody bought any of these and used them yet?
i dont want to be the guinea pig.
dan

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[bowlan 0]

good one.
we havent started production on these yet.we are still setting up.
li8berty team will be the dealer when the time comes.
if they are good enough for the u.s.navy land search/rescue you should be happy with them also.

[jnjskydive 0]

Just keep us updated when you have strated production. I am very interested in purchasing one.

[bowlan 0]

we will do that.
its funny with some manufactures,they tell you how good their products are but they wont refund a defective unit.
they may sell a little cheaper but what good is it if it doesent work and they wont give you the money back or even a replacement.
they rely on the fact that there are only a few places to buy them.
so what happens when a better product comes along from some one who will refund the defective product.
we take over and they fold...

[Rick 67]

Quote

we will do that.
its funny with some manufactures,they tell you how good their products are but they wont refund a defective unit.
they may sell a little cheaper but what good is it if it doesent work and they wont give you the money back or even a replacement.
they rely on the fact that there are only a few places to buy them.
so what happens when a better product comes along from some one who will refund the defective product.
we take over and they fold...

sounds like a good business plan.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[SpeedPhreak 0]

Are there any updates on this as far as availability and/or pricing?

I am interested in purchasing smoke for upcoming demos, particularly Blue if it is available.

SkydiveAllegan.com

[bowlan 0]

Quote

Are there any updates on this as far as availability and/or pricing?

I am interested in purchasing smoke for upcoming demos, particularly Blue if it is available.

we are developing a new cold casing pvc smoke cartridge just for sky diving.
jim from liberty will have controle over the finneshed smoke.
the problem we found with the m-18 was the can size is produced in just one size.
the can will only hold enough smoke compound to produce a burn between 50-60 seconds with sugar based smoke,sulfur based gives a fast burn of 30 seconds.
fast burn sugar compounds dont work well in the metal m-18 can because the internal heat destroys the color dyes.
the slow burn formula works best but slow burn smoke doesent produce color fast enough for sky diving.
slow burn formulas are basicly designed for signaling only.
the slow burn with a 1/2 inch core produces great color up to the 60 second point.
once the burn goes over the 60 second point the color quickly turns to white because the dyes dont handle the heat generated inside the metal can.
so we are testing the cold casing pvc casings we used for electric ingition smoke.
so fare the test went great.
our smoke burns below the pvc heat limits so they dont destroy the casings.
the casings are the same diamiter as the m-18 so they will fit the smoke brackets.
we can use a 5/9 core and by doing so allows a longer smoke grain for longer burns.
to give you an example of what the slow burn compounds produce there is a clip on the web site www.flamelesssmokegrenades.com that shows orange smoke.
now the speed of the burn can be increased and we are doing that now.
but the m-18 can with the new sugar based smoke will not foot the bill for sky diving.
the best we could get with a fast burn in the m-18 was 30 seconds using a full pressed 12oz. can of smoke compound.
we will have the new casing ready before long so if you need a extended burn be prepaired to change your way of thinking as to how the smoke cartridge looks.
most of you are probably used to seing the old school m-18 can but the m-18 smoke you may have used before also had a very different smoke compound.

[SpeedPhreak 0]

Great. What is the expected time frame for this?

SkydiveAllegan.com

[bowlan 0]

Quote

Great. What is the expected time frame for this?

first thing we have to do is finnesh our own m-18 testing for armor holdings
between doing this we work on the new smoke design.
the longest part of the process is the smoke grain is pressed one day and has to cure for two before we can test burn it.
one simple test can take two days before it is complete.
the binders have to cure at room temp so the smoke grains are rock hard.
we will be posting a clip in the next week with white smoke in the new casings.
this will be using a full load of smoke.
5/8 core so they will produce the same amount of smoke on just over 60 seconds that a normal smoke cartridge would produce in 5 miniuts

[pyromelon 0]

>>Start with red burn to white and finish with blue.




I can do it. 20 seconds of each color. All paper constrution. No flame. 50% dye content. 3" OD x 6" long.
Electric or pull wire. I have vids on the introduction forum and need input from you folks.