Can I jump with a spinal fusion?

[spencersmith233 0]

I had it done for scoliosis 14 years ago and it healed perfectly. They say skydiving is one of those things I shouldn't do. I see no problem with it. http://www.scoliosisassociates.com/subject.php?pn=daniel-bthis kid had a spinal fusion and he skydives.

will my DZ ask me medical questiosn? Or do I just sign a waiver and self-certify? I don't want them to turn me down. I'm comfortable with jumping, whatever some doctors might say.

thanks in advance

[GreenLight 7]

A friend of mine went against his doctor's advice not to indulge in sports like this. He had a hard landing and has been a parapalegic stuck in a wheel chair ever since. Not a day goes by that he doesn't wish he had listened to his doctor. Do you have a medical degree? You WILL hit the ground very hard every once in a while. Is it worth the risk?

Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

[spencersmith233 0]

I'm very sorry to hear that. Did your friend have a spinal fusion? Did it contribute to his injury.

I don't understand why me hitting the ground hard would be any worse than you hitting the ground hard.

[Andy9o8 2]

If you're asking for an opinion on whether it's medically OK for you to jump, this is the wrong place to ask that, unless you get happen a reply post from a doctor. Non-physicians' personal anecdotes are not an exception to that, BTW.

If you want to know whether a DZ will allow you to jump - I don't know what country you're in, but in the US most DZs don't really broach that subject (at least with jumpers under about age 60) if it's not brought up or there isn't something obvious to bring it to their attention.

[spencersmith233 0]

I was encouraged by some of the anecdotes I found here about spinally fused people who've done hundreds of jumps. But I appreciate hearing the downside to it as well.

I guess anyone could be paralyzed by a hard landing -- the question is whether it's more likely with a spinal fusion.

I made an appointment with an orthopedic doctor for tomorrow. I'll share whatever I learn.

I was very excited reading so many good things about the sport on this forum. It really sounds like it's something I could love. I would be very sad if I can't even try it once. But I guess I'll find out.

[spencersmith233 0]

Would a tandem jump be less likely to result in a hard landing? It's not what I want, but if they say no...

[Abedy 0]

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Would a tandem jump be less likely to result in a hard landing?

Ask Shania Twain

To be serious: Might also happen in a tandem jump.

So just ask your doc. Make sure they understand what modern skydiving is about. If they know about the potential hazards they will come to a decision you then should obey. If in doubt, look for a second or third opinion. There are skydiving orthopaedists around, find and ask them, if need be.

Consider: One day you will "thump down", be it a rotor or whatever. Even if you PLF your spine might not indulge it, so to say.

OTOH, if was operated on my spine 5 years ago; disk prolapse. Wasn't a fusion, though, something different. Have done ... huhu, just found out I've done exactly 1000 jumps since the operation. Got an OK from my doc, built up muscles beforehand, waited long enough. The usual stuff. Gotta tell him his work was worth the money

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[PeteS 0]

First thing, how much of your spine is fused? The more fused vertebre you have, the less you are able to spread out the loads you will surely encounter. The spine just above and below the fusion will take more load than it should. The fused spine may also break, and I'm sure you would not want that!
Tandems _can_ open very hard, just like any other parachute, so beware...

[robinheid 0]

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I was encouraged by some of the anecdotes I found here about spinally fused people who've done hundreds of jumps. But I appreciate hearing the downside to it as well.

I guess anyone could be paralyzed by a hard landing -- the question is whether it's more likely with a spinal fusion.

I made an appointment with an orthopedic doctor for tomorrow. I'll share whatever I learn.

I was very excited reading so many good things about the sport on this forum. It really sounds like it's something I could love. I would be very sad if I can't even try it once. But I guess I'll find out.

Most docs have no clue about theforces involved in parachute openings and landings, so a better way to phrase the question than "Can I skydive?" is to ask how high a platform you could safely jump from to land on grass -- anything that gives the doc a real-world reference to which he can relate.

If he says "the roof of your house," then you're good to go. If he says "You need to be careful stepping off a curb," then you're not. Most likely, of course, he'll tell you something smack-dab in the middle of the yes-no envelope and you'll be right where you started (minus the deductible).

Best of luck with whatever you decide and FYI, I have a cervical fusion (broke c-5, have a plate fusing 4-5-6) and I have had zero problems, including on slider-down base jump openings.

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[spencersmith233 0]

Good points. The last time I saw the surgeon who did the surgery (who is now retired) he said I was very flexible and my results were among the best he'd seen. I laid on my belly and practiced arching and it seems like I can do it as well as in the photos I've seen.

Who knows what this next doctor will say tomorrow.

If I can't do it, then what? Just sit at home and wonder what it might have been like? Hope that after a few years of medicroty I'll forget I ever had the desire?

You guys all take the risk too. Even if you don't have a spinal fusion, you could NEED one from skydiving. Or just end up paralyzed anyway. A lot of people seem to think it's worth the risk.

[spencersmith233 0]

Student chutes are more gentle and slower right? Maybe I could always jump with a student chute.

[dragon2 2]

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Student chutes are more gentle and slower right? Maybe I could always jump with a student chute.

Student canopies are geared to land you safely, but they are not the slowest-opening canopies: to prevent students from thinking they have a malfunction because opening takes so long, and to give the canopy less time to develop problems stemming from less-than-optimal body position, student canopy openings are on the more "positive" side.

Also, speed=lift so properly landing a somewhat smaller, faster canopy will let you land softer than even a modern type student canopy (and not all student canopies are that modern, or that brand new).

So, if you have back problems, there are other canopies that would be more appropriate than the average student canopy. And remember, EVERY canopy can open hard even those renowned for their slow openings can open so hard that lines break, and you WILL land hard a couple of times regardlesss of which canopy you might jump.

Hence over here we require a (simple) medical before you can jump (not for tandems). Not a bad thing to ask from a newbie skydiver, IMO, especially since they have no idea what might present them with medical problems when skydiving. When you have more jumps (C license) you are expected to make your own decisions regarding medical issues, unless you are a tandemmaster.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[BIRDDOCTOR 0]

I am an orthopaedic surgeon who skydives. I don't obviously know your specific spinal state, and i'm not here to give you an official opinion. The reality is you have a very non-flexible fused spine (if all went as planned), likely from your thoracic spine to mid to lower lumbar. In general there are no restrictions with regards to daily activities and basic sporting events (again if your spine has successfully fused), but realize you are taking more of a chance in this environment. Chances are you would be fine but spine flexability is tested alot when loaded in the parachute deployment phase of skydiving and if you experience a harder than normal landing. In the end it is your decision and you have to weight the risks as we all do when we jump out of an airplane. I would say your risks are mildly higher if your condition is excellent without issue. I wish I could give you a more specific yes or no answer but "I can't" and it's likely no other orthopedic provider will.

Mark

Base# 1638

[spencersmith233 0]

Mark,

I appreciate your thoughts. Since you're a skydiving orthopedic surgeon (probably a rare combination!), would you mind if I asked you a few more questions? I understand if you don't want to offer a medical opinion. This is very important to me, because skydiving is exactly what I want to get involved in, and not just for some cheap thrill, and it breaks my heart to hear that I shouldn't even try it once.

I was told not to play football or skydive in the interview before the surgery. What is the actual reason for this advice? Is it the lack of flexibility in the spine?

What are the risks to my back if it receives more load than it can handle? Broken instrumentation? Paralysis? Do non-fused jumpers face the same risks?

Would you tell your patients in no uncertain terms not to skydive, as my surgeon did?

And finally, could a tandem jump be, perhaps, a slightly less risky way of at least seeing if this is all worth the risk?

I hope you aren't bothered by these questions. I want you to know that my interest in skydiving is very real and I'm not trying to justify a one-time thrill ride. I love to land planes, I love the sky and the earth, I love getting really good at something complex, and everything else seems exactly right about the sport.

[spencersmith233 0]

Couple more things. I see that some spinal fusion patients won't ride roller coasters or are advised not to. I have no problem with them, even rough ones. And I have no problem pulling 3 Gs in a steep turn in an airplane. Is that worth anything?

[billvon 2,989]

>I don't understand why me hitting the ground hard would be any worse than you
>hitting the ground hard.

Normally the intervertebral discs in your back do two things to absorb shock:

1) compress like little shock absorbers
2) allow your spine to flex to absorb the impact like a spring

A fusion removes the flexion that this disc allows. If you have a hard landing (either a straight legged standing landing or a butt strike) then there will be less shock absorption, and a much higher load on your vertebrae. This could lead to damaged vertebrae, and that can cause damage to the spinal cord as well as all the problems associated with a broken back.

[Arvoitus 1]

Can your back take an opening like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJKtzidSmiE ?

I fractured a rib in the process and my upper back was in pain for about 4 months afterwards.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[dragon2 2]

Ouch

A hard opening on my normally soft opening vengeance landed me in the hospital once on suspicion of a broken back, turned out to be "just" a few bruised ribs.

Hard openings can happen with tandems as well

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jhh166 0]

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Student chutes are more gentle and slower right? Maybe I could always jump with a student chute.

I have had six openings under a navigator 280 (a common student canopy). They are docile yes , in terms of control inputs and speed but they by no means open slowly. I can tell you that the openings are fast enough to make the inside of my legs look like they have been caned! No shit, I have yet got to the count of two after throwing my PC out. When I feel the 'snatch' and look up, the slider is pretty much all ready at the risers. That navigator does not snivel very long at all.
It is by no means a 'hard opening' to the point you see stars, but it is definitely not a soft opening.

Also, I am not complaining - it is well worth the experience

[spencersmith233 0]

Could my back take it? Good question. I've been reading stories from other scoliosis patients (non skydivers) who won't even go on trampolines. They have pain just walking around.

See, I don't have any pain. I've treated my back as though I never had any surgery. I've fallen onto my butt many times, such as off a skateboard. I really felt it but my back was OK. My back doesn't feel fragile, at least. To give you an example, some of these fusion patients (from what they wrote) would have trouble just getting into a plane. Me, I jump around, dance and stuff. I just seem to have no problems.

I guess for me, the risk of injuring my back would be in addition to the other risks that go along with the sport. If I'm willing to accept those...

Then I read a thing where a girl was given no limitations by her surgeon. He told her, don't let the rods in your back interfere with your dreams. That was his policy for ALL his fusion patients.

[jman 0]

I guess it might depend on how many vertebrae are fused. I had a lower back fusion L3,4,5 long ago & it hasn't created any problems for me. As others have said, the correct canopy will go a long way...

[VideoFly 0]

I have over 1,500 skydives after having two discs removed from S1, L4, L5, and a double laminectomy with few problems. After breaking my neck wearing cameras with a hard opening, I had C5, 6, and 7 fused with hip bone and a titanium plate. I’ve jumped about 100 times since then with very few problems. However, after being rear-ended in a car accident, it appears that the fused area of my neck may have acted as a lever and I had my spinal cord torn at C8, leaving me paralyzed in my hands and parts of my arms.

I recommend that you speak with a sports doctor about your fused area, but also about the areas above and below your fusion in respect to potential damage to those areas.

[stayhigh 2]

one guy that i knew had c spine fused due to skateboarding accident.
Had line twist and chopped and hard opening on a reserve left him paralyzed under reserve.
He try to steer by pressing his head against the riser but did not work so well.
He ended up in a tree. quite literally in the tree with the tree trunk going thru the abdomen.
He had around 300 to 500 jumps at the time.
Good luck on your journey.
Not everyone with fused spine ends up this way, some do quite well.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[popsjumper 2]

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I had it done for scoliosis 14 years ago and it healed perfectly. They say skydiving is one of those things I shouldn't do.

There's your answer.

I cannot recommend skydiving for your situation.

The potential for bad life-altering injury is just too great.

And that's regardless of what canopy or equipment you use.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[spencersmith233 0]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Did his cervical fusion contribute to being paralyzed on the hard opening?

Is a reserve expected to open hard? Do you expect injuries?

Can hard openings (main) be prevented with the right canopy, lines, and pack job?

Would a static line jump help avoid a hard opening, since you're going slower?