ThighMan 5 #1 August 22, 2011 Why is the USPA making it more difficult for new jumps to enter the sport? As a coach, I understand the need for training and staying proficient. The problem I see, if you have checked the incidents, is the "Sky Gods" (1000 plus jumper). Most if not all of the canopy collisions have been with the most experienced jumpers. We need to Check Ourselves when jumping. Take responsibility instead of blaming everything and everyone else for the mistakes we make not only in skydiving but in life. Vent over.Airborne Blue Skies, No Wind Feet and Knees Together Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #2 August 22, 2011 QuoteWhy is the USPA making it more difficult for new jumps to enter the sport? As a coach, I understand the need for training and staying proficient. The problem I see, if you have checked the incidents, is the "Sky Gods" (1000 plus jumper). Most if not all of the canopy collisions have been with the most experienced jumpers. We need to Check Ourselves when jumping. Take responsibility instead of blaming everything and everyone else for the mistakes we make not only in skydiving but in life. Vent over. You disagree with the new canopy piloting portion of the licensing system?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waveoff5500 0 #3 August 22, 2011 i think it was last months parachutist that had two students colliding under canopy and both died."its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not" 1653 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyrotech 0 #4 August 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhy is the USPA making it more difficult for new jumps to enter the sport? As a coach, I understand the need for training and staying proficient. The problem I see, if you have checked the incidents, is the "Sky Gods" (1000 plus jumper). Most if not all of the canopy collisions have been with the most experienced jumpers. We need to Check Ourselves when jumping. Take responsibility instead of blaming everything and everyone else for the mistakes we make not only in skydiving but in life. Vent over. You disagree with the new canopy piloting portion of the licensing system? Which part is new? Looking here at 3.1.E for an A license, it doesn't look like anything has changed: http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section3/tabid/165/Default.aspx I'm about to send in my paperwork to obtain the A license; is there something I'd be missing besides the Proficiency card and USPA membership application? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #5 August 22, 2011 I believe the requirements are going to be for B-Licenses http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4148171#4148171"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #6 August 22, 2011 They added stuff to the canopy proficiency to get your B license (which I feel should be for your A, IMO). Hadnt heard anything changed about the A license either. What changed?....anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 August 22, 2011 QuoteWhy is the USPA making it more difficult for new jumps to enter the sport? As a coach, I understand the need for training and staying proficient. The problem I see, if you have checked the incidents, is the "Sky Gods" (1000 plus jumper). Most if not all of the canopy collisions have been with the most experienced jumpers. We need to Check Ourselves when jumping. Take responsibility instead of blaming everything and everyone else for the mistakes we make not only in skydiving but in life. Vent over. Why are new students so resistant to focusing on becoming proficient on their own? Why are new instructors so resistant on making sure they are able to teach properly, and ensure that student meet the requirements no matter how many times they have to repeat a dive?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #8 August 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhy is the USPA making it more difficult for new jumps to enter the sport? As a coach, I understand the need for training and staying proficient. The problem I see, if you have checked the incidents, is the "Sky Gods" (1000 plus jumper). Most if not all of the canopy collisions have been with the most experienced jumpers. We need to Check Ourselves when jumping. Take responsibility instead of blaming everything and everyone else for the mistakes we make not only in skydiving but in life. Vent over. Why are new students so resistant to focusing on becoming proficient on their own? Why are new instructors so resistant on making sure they are able to teach properly, and ensure that student meet the requirements no matter how many times they have to repeat a dive? Also, the skydiving world is a more complicated place these days. Back in the stone age when I started, canopies all flew at about the same speed (way slower), jumpers all fell at the same speed, and loads turned much more slowly. Experience and information came at slower rates, so the student had time to absorb information. Today there are so many more things going on in the air over the average DZ. Freefall speeds vary dramatically (belly, freefly, wingsuit), as do canopy speeds. Not to mention other factors- GPS, GoPro, collapsable sliders, zero-p, etc. All these things make jumping more complicated and therefore, teaching a student and being a student should be more involved. We need to prepare our students better than ever before. top P.S. And those "skygods" were once students.Jump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #9 August 22, 2011 I acknowledge your point that adding a Canopy Proficiency Card to the list of requirements for a B license adds a layer of difficulty in earning that particular license. There are two major points that you need to consider: -This is the first step in a proposed multi-level effort to add Canopy Piloting education for all jumpers to the USPA training progression. This multi-level effort is aimed at students, license holders, and instructors - not just those in the A>>B license range. -There is a HUGE benefit that makes the new B license step worth the extra hassle. I have been both directly and indirectly involved with entry level Canopy Piloting education for 42 jumpers over the past 13 months, and have witnessed the big leap in canopy flight knowledge and proficiency that participants in programs such as this one have displayed. Regarding the first point . . . nobody is "blaming" those in the A>>B license range for the baffling rash of collisions this year. This level in the proposed plan was the first to be implemented because it was nearly complete to begin with - existing in "optional" form in Sections 6-10 and 6-11 of the SIM. It was seen as a starting place for an effort to help prevent more of these collisions from happening. As a Coach, you know what it is like to try and re-train someone who has already built in bad habits . . . this level of the program catches jumpers at just the right time in their development. Regarding the second point . . . professional Canopy Piloting coaching is invaluable in any jumper's career. Either in the form of an organized course, or as 1-on-1 ad hoc training, the benefits are huge. This education goes beyond flying the canopy and addresses things like exit separation, how to build an aircraft load (exit order), flight planning, how to hang in brakes after opening to find a spot to fit oneself into the pattern, pattern discipline, etc. All of this information builds a safer, better informed jumper. Lastly, your best point is - WE NEED TO CHECK OURSELVES! I would add to that that we need to provide gentle correction to others who are not . . . we owe it to them and to the rest of the jumpers on the DZ (including ourselves).Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CRASH1 0 #10 August 22, 2011 The USPA site says "The board is developing a canopy proficiency card..." What type of requirements are they looking at? A certain number of jumps with in a set radius of a target or... something different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #11 August 22, 2011 Quote The USPA site says "The board is developing a canopy proficiency card..." What type of requirements are they looking at? A certain number of jumps with in a set radius of a target or... something different? They already have those. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #12 August 22, 2011 If you look at the existing card in the back of the SIM it will give you a very good idea. They used that one as their baseline. Major changes are WHO signs off on individual tasks and WHO approves those signatories at each DZ. Individual tasks should be signed off by Instructors who have been vetted and approved by the DZ S&TA.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #13 August 22, 2011 QuoteIf you look at the existing card in the back of the SIM it will give you a very good idea. They used that one as their baseline. Major changes are WHO signs off on individual tasks and WHO approves those signatories at each DZ. Individual tasks should be signed off by Instructors who have been vetted and approved by the DZ S&TA. What about coaches as well?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #14 August 22, 2011 Quote Quote The USPA site says "The board is developing a canopy proficiency card..." What type of requirements are they looking at? A certain number of jumps with in a set radius of a target or... something different? They already have those. They do have a Piloting Canopy Proficiency Card. To work on it and get things signed off you need to complete the advanced canopy course first. Where the hell can I get even a first canopy course let alone the advanced class? Looks like a fun card to work on, too bad Im SOL on finding these canopy course things I heard of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #15 August 22, 2011 Quotetoo bad Im SOL on finding these canopy course things I heard of Yeah, it really sucks that the only people in your area who have been putting them on are both broken (from non-jumping activities).... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fencebuster 7 #16 August 22, 2011 I think part of the problem with the completeness of instruction is that some DZs do not pay for an instructor to provide ground training beyond what is required for the FF portion of the skydive. I work at a DZ where AFF-Is are paid for ground training and they are expected to completely explain the CAT training for the CAT that they are teaching. At a boogie this past weekend, I asked numerous jumpers who were going to be in the group exiting first what the spot was and how they would know when to get out of the airplane after the green light came on. The response was less than impressive. Green light means that the pilot has confirmed with ATC that he is about to jumper dump and that ATC has confirmed that they have no observed traffic. It remains up to the individual jumper to make sure that it is appropriate and safe to leave the A/C. I was less than impressed with the answers I received from supposedly A license qualified jumpers.Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208 AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #17 August 23, 2011 Flight-1 Canopy Skills Camp @ Elsinore 29 Sep - 2 Oct. http://www.flight-1.com/school/f1camps.htmlArrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #18 August 23, 2011 Grateful for having you and Keith around to teach the class! Heal up well, see you soon enough in class Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #19 August 23, 2011 Thanks for the info Slotperfect. Ill save those days for the class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
