Andy9o8 2
Recommended Posts
stayhigh 2
so how many of these "bag lock" have you cleared in your time?????
momentary hang up with the double wrapped rubber band is not a bag lock.
although i had one funky opening with semi stow less d-bag.
i guess i cleared that "bag lock" as well.
momentary hang up with the double wrapped rubber band is not a bag lock.
although i had one funky opening with semi stow less d-bag.
i guess i cleared that "bag lock" as well.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016
miconar 0
QuoteQuotehow likly are (baglocks) on reserve deployments assuming no main reserve entanglment?
Short and Sweet: Exceedingly unlikely.
*Snip*
You can read about it here
Thank you for replying, and for a very interesting read.
Also for letting me know that book is on line at google books. Am traveling right now and couldnt take that behemoth with me, and I was just starting to read it on the advice of a good friend before I left, so that is definitely awesome. Thanks!
Anyone have any info, or just ideas (qualified ideas, though... :) about a semi stow less d bag (UPT) reducing the chances of a bag lock?
Im asking because I recently started wing suiting, and while any mal is undesirable, im trying to pay particular attention to preventing anything that gets stuck before the riser covers open, because unless im stood up (and even if I am) reaching back there to clear anything would be difficult without pulling another handle or two while free falling at low altitude with a wing suit on and a main (likely still in the bag if the riser covers are still closed) in tow. I can reach my emergency handles just fine, but a high speed mal that needs clearing by reaching back at at or below opening altitude... that would suck on a wing suit (and off it).
thanks!
Quote
So, if the pilot chute ties in a knot, and the bag does not open, that's a baglock too?
IMO, yes.
I like this. Two different angles of approach to the same problem.
I'm of the mind that if the canopy doesn't come out of the bag, for any reason, it's a bag lock and I'll treat it as such.
To me, bag lock is the symptom with multiple causes. I'm reluctant to try to put a name to each and every root cause. Can you imagine trying to teach a youngster all those names? The good news is that, more often than not, we can pre-treat the cause to prevent the symptom.
Similarly, there a causes that have multiple symptoms. Tension knots come to mind.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuote
So, if the pilot chute ties in a knot, and the bag does not open, that's a baglock too?
IMO, yes.
I like this. Two different angles of approach to the same problem.
I'm of the mind that if the canopy doesn't come out of the bag, for any reason, it's a bag lock and I'll treat it as such.
To me, bag lock is the symptom with multiple causes. I'm reluctant to try to put a name to each and every root cause. Can you imagine trying to teach a youngster all those names? The good news is that, more often than not, we can pre-treat the cause to prevent the symptom.
Similarly, there a causes that have multiple symptoms. Tension knots come to mind.
Treating it is not the same as naming it.
Sure, treat it the same. That doesn't mean the bag was locked.
If the bridle breaks, and I have no pilot chute, sure, use the same response as for a bag lock.
But the mal was not a bag lock, and figuring out how to not let it happen again has nothing to do with finding the cause of a bag lock.
I could call every jump a double total, right up until I solve the "problem" by deploying something.
That sounds dramatic, but it isn't really correct.
Is this really too fine a distinction to expect jumpers to make?
I get it - OP thought he was having a bag lock.
But, when all was said and done, it wasn't a bag lock, even though the response would have been the same.
Never said you were wrong. Like I did say, I like the idea of two different angles of approach.
-One from the front end
-One from the back end
Both valuable in its own way.
-One from the front end
-One from the back end
Both valuable in its own way.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
pchapman 279
I think there was a similar recent argument about pilot chutes in tow. I mean, when is it really "in tow" and not just "a hesitation"? If it tows for 2 seconds? Four? Until the reserve is opened? Do you have to wait for impact to be sure?
We are allowed to use more than a couple words to describe situations.
So I might say something was a "bag lock" in terms of what the jumper dealt with, even if from a rigging standpoint the cause was "pilot chute not cocked". Or there could be a situation where one could say "in the end it wasn't much of a bag lock - just a temporary bag lock - because it cleared after a couple seconds".
OK, if we have to check off a pre-defined category on a form we'll perhaps argue about how to pick the nearest best choice.
To avoid arguments on dz.com, any jumper who has a so-called bag lock or pilot chute in tow, should wait at least 10 seconds to confirm it before taking action. 
QuoteTo avoid arguments on dz.com, any jumper who has a so-called bag lock or pilot chute in tow, should wait at least 10 seconds to confirm it before taking action.
Oh wait, I hope all youngsters take note of the
Taste of bag lock....I wonder if he wanted salt with that. I have to say, "Spit out out! It ain't yours!"
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuoteTo avoid arguments on dz.com, any jumper who has a so-called bag lock or pilot chute in tow, should wait at least 10 seconds to confirm it before taking action.
Oh wait, I hope all youngsters take note of the
Taste of bag lock....I wonder if he wanted salt with that. I have to say, "Spit out out! It ain't yours!"
It is good to be back on our more typical footing, because on this, we are in complete agreement.
QuoteQuoteTo avoid arguments on dz.com, any jumper who has a so-called bag lock or pilot chute in tow, should wait at least 10 seconds to confirm it before taking action.
Oh wait, I hope all youngsters take note of the
Taste of bag lock....I wonder if he wanted salt with that. I have to say, "Spit out out! It ain't yours!"
An actual bag-lock taste like shit and salt won't help....I think he had more of a hesitation...they taste like CHICKEN!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
QuoteHow is it a bag lock when it clearly opened???
Ah yes, my mistake, I clearly mis-stated the situation. For future reference, I'll count to thirty next time it happens to make absolute certain it is a baglock so I can say it was a baglock and the dorkzone.com members won't call my bluff.
I'd just LOVE to see what exactly you do when you look up and see your bag at linestretch while you continue to tumble to earth.
Some people have the most retarded comments...
"When once you have tasted flight..."
...what exactly you do when you look up and see your bag at line-stretch while you continue to tumble to earth.
Quote
First I'd get stable!
Kidding aside, all we're doing is discussing the semantics of the terminology you used...in the end, you had a problem that somehow cleared itself.
I don't doubt that WAS a situation...
What do YOU think caused the problem (whatever name it's called) and how do you think it can be prevented in the future?
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
To be honest, I have no idea. I posted what I thought could have caused it in an earlier post.
It's possible that it could have been an uncocked PC, but for my PC to pull he pin, extract my bag from a fairly tight, contoured container, and to release all the stows up to the locking stows( or somewhere near full linestretch) and then stop....would be a bit peculiar. Had this been a PC in tow, or a PC hesitation, I would have said ABSOLUTELY!
Point and case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_fcX1YiWIU - Note the where-about of the bag during the issue...
Causes aside, I've got a question. If you looked up and saw your PC and bag at linestretch, you saw your PC "collapsed", but the canopy was still in the bag, what is this called?
In my eyes, that's baglock as well (caused by PC in tow), since regardless of the cause, the canopy is still locked in the bag.
It's possible that it could have been an uncocked PC, but for my PC to pull he pin, extract my bag from a fairly tight, contoured container, and to release all the stows up to the locking stows( or somewhere near full linestretch) and then stop....would be a bit peculiar. Had this been a PC in tow, or a PC hesitation, I would have said ABSOLUTELY!
Point and case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_fcX1YiWIU - Note the where-about of the bag during the issue...
Causes aside, I've got a question. If you looked up and saw your PC and bag at linestretch, you saw your PC "collapsed", but the canopy was still in the bag, what is this called?
In my eyes, that's baglock as well (caused by PC in tow), since regardless of the cause, the canopy is still locked in the bag.
"When once you have tasted flight..."
QuoteTo be honest, I have no idea. I posted what I thought could have caused it in an earlier post.
It's possible that it could have been an uncocked PC, but for my PC to pull he pin, extract my bag from a fairly tight, contoured container, and to release all the stows up to the locking stows( or somewhere near full linestretch) and then stop....would be a bit peculiar. Had this been a PC in tow, or a PC hesitation, I would have said ABSOLUTELY!
Point and case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_fcX1YiWIU - Note the where-about of the bag during the issue...
Causes aside, I've got a question. If you looked up and saw your PC and bag at linestretch, you saw your PC "collapsed", but the canopy was still in the bag, what is this called?
In my eyes, that's baglock as well, since regardless of the cause, the canopy is still locked in the bag.
I'd call it an uncocked pilot-chute, but again it's semantics...25 years ago I had a bag-locked by too big a bite on a closing stow with a new tube stow, also sub-terminal.
I think a terminal deployment may have cleared the lock, but that obviously wasn't an option with the whistling bad of shit over my head.
I was taught it's a bag-lock if it lands locked in the bag which mine did...took a lot of tension, one foot on the bag and pulling like hell on the risers to get that tube-stow to finally break...never used them again.
Either way it just a terminology thing, 'Tomato/Potato', call it what you will...fix it if you can!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Anyone have any info, or just ideas (qualified ideas, though... :) about a semi stow less d bag (UPT) reducing the chances of a bag lock?
thanks!
thanks!
It seems your question has been lost or ingored so I copied it and moved it to the Gear thread to save the moderator time.
I posted my response in there. Check it out.
Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
Quote
In my eyes, that's baglock as well (caused by PC in tow)....
Ruh Roh.
Here we go again.
PCIT is a different animal... with multiple causes, I will add.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Aha! You've just proven that you can't disprove what you can't prove!
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites