The New Skyride??????

[skydived19006 4]

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Is this an issue of semantics whether intentional or not? Maybe a change in the header to these links such as "Non proskydiving.com network participating DZs"?

Either way, name change or not, listing all DZs who are not in business with ProSD is not good for the sport and is against what he has said; the whole for the good fo the sport routine.

Promoting DZs is one thing, but actively listing DZs who are not in business with you is another.

I don't know that I'd see it that way as a know nothing first jump customer. I think that I'd assume the links to be supportive as opposed to negative. If it were intented to be a slam the offended DZs would/should object, it would be more obvious, and why provide the link?

I "slam" Skyride in a warning on my web site, but I sure as hell do not provide a link to 1800skyride! My warning regarding Skyride is far from "We don't participate in the Skyride network" with an active link.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[Jumpdude 0]

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Our marketing plans do not include the internet.

PROSkydiving.com is a website, Right?

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We want to sponsor events, take out magazine ads, TV ads, things that will get people thinking about skydiving and generate new business. If they want to Google a DZ near them, that's great, if they end up going to PROskdiving to locate a network DZ, that's fine too. Currently, the internet is the only place we are marketing our industry. That works well for people who know that they want to go skydiving. What about the people who don't even know there's a DZ 20 - 30 miles from their house?

With sLyride, and now PROskydiving in the mix, how can they know where the nearest REAL DZ is? In Tennessee, the only PROSkydiving member DZ that is listed is Skydive East Tennessee, does that mean that if someone in Memphis finds PROSkydiving, they are going to assume that they are going to have to travel over 400 miles? Furthermore, are they to assume that since you have MIke Mullins' two DZ's listed as "Non-PROSkydiving" DZ's, that those two DZ's are somehow inferior?
I also noticed that you have not removed Skydive Smoky Mountains from the Non member list.
Also, when did AFF's cost $55? That's what you've got the "Starting From" price set at for SkydiveET

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[skydived19006 4]

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...
2. The way in which you list the non-pro DZ's to woofos! See the attached screen shot. You don't even bother to keep the DZ and city the dz does business lined up. It appears to be an intentional mistake, kinda like an "accident on purpose".

Browser problem? They lined up for me (attached). Some of these "points" are pushing paranoia in my opinion.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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At least this way if someone winds up on the website they can see all their local options as opposed to just the DZs that participate.

No, they will see that all these DZ's at the bottom are non-ProSD DZs. Again, it is what that is implied that counts, not the intent, or the literal wording.....only what is implied, knowingly or not.

Think of it as if you are a whuffo.

[pbwing 0]

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Doug... I find two things concerning;
1. the hidden links back to the Area DZ's
2. The way in which you list the non-pro DZ's to woofos! See the attached screen shot. You don't even bother to keep the DZ and city the dz does business lined up. It appears to be an intentional mistake, kinda like an "accident on purpose".

I truely hope these are just startup glitches? As I said in my previous post... We'll be watching! At this point, so will the attorney general from the state I live in.

I'm not sure why, but it lines up fine when I view it.

[kallend 2,098]

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At least this way if someone winds up on the website they can see all their local options as opposed to just the DZs that participate.

No, they will see that all these DZ's at the bottom are non-ProSD DZs. Again, it is what that is implied that counts, not the intent, or the literal wording.....only what is implied, knowingly or not.

Think of it as if you are a whuffo.

Hey, I think I'll start a site called "Safe_Skydiving.com". Then I could list all DZs that won't pay my ransom as "Un-Safe_Skydiving Drop Zones".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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I don't know that I'd see it that way as a know nothing first jump customer. I think that I'd assume the links to be supportive as opposed to negative. If it were intented to be a slam the offended DZs would/should object, it would be more obvious, and why provide the link?

I understand what you're saying. I'm not putting this website with the same category as SlyRide. Just pointing out a few things that, in my opinion, will do more harm than good. Especially since the links are not obvious and, as you stated, maybe changing the wording to "non-ProSD.com network dropzones", etc... would be a better approach. But that's still a low blow from the website owners.

Edit: The post above this one is a good example of how whuffos see it.

[Opie 0]

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would rather not use this medium. It's not the most uplifting place for me to visit when people are comparing me to SkyRide.

You don't want to be compared to them, you created a business to compete with them, and yet you continue to partner with them? You know who they are, you know what they have done and continue to do. You know their business model has depended on lying to your customers. You know what they are doing is wrong because you know they lost a massive lawsuit. You know that what they're doing is criminal behavior and they will probably end up in prison some day.

And you continue to be their partner in business and crime? If proskydiving can outdo them, PROVE IT.

Dave

My thoughts exactly. Chicagoland has been and continues to be a SKYRIDE PARTNER plain and simple. Tough to put yourself out there as an honest businessman when you choose to be in business with Skyride.

I wonder if these Skyride partnered dropzones would still think the affiliation is worth it if they were named as co-defendents in the court cases and had to start shelling out legal fees to defend themselves.

[airtwardo 7]

First I applaud your willingness & openness in discussing your 'business plan' ...that at least is new and refreshing.

However, I like many others that have been in the sport awhile find ourselves a bit uneasy in the implementation.

The 'PRO' name implies an elitism of those connected, that 'we' all know doesn't exist...besides, I thought it's a rating not a company name... isn't it?

Far be it for me to tell you how to run your business, but as you can see from the input here, there seem to be some problems with many of those in the sport, as well as the industry.

It's your decision whether your goal is to possibly alienate that segment of your market or not, thought clearly it's not your 'target market', or probably your intention.

Isn't there some tweaking that could be done to possibly address these concerns and still market the product?


For me, as it stands now...This smells funny and I'm not eating it.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[stratostar 5]

Do a search in my zip code and you'll be sent out of state, because the closest dz is non pro along with all the others in my state.

Just like skyride.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Harmless 0]

I was pretty disappointed to see The Farm in this network... but was happy that not one Alabama DZ was cooperating.

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[Heatmiser 0]

Look at this screenshot. It says "Other skydiving centers in your area" That is pretty non threatening. This guy is listening.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[BillyVance 34]

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Look at this screenshot. It says "Other skydiving centers in your area" That is pretty non threatening. This guy is listening.

I think the map should also show the "other" DZs as well.

Then again, I prefer there NOT be a middle man, good or bad.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Harmless 0]

That is a very positive change. I still think its in a DZ's best interest not to participate, but the wording is no longer misleading...

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[Opie 0]

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Look at this screenshot. It says "Other skydiving centers in your area" That is pretty non threatening. This guy is listening.

Yep that's a good change. Now if they would just stop working with Skyride at his dropzone! That's some change I could believe in

[Jumpdude 0]

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Look at this screenshot. It says "Other skydiving centers in your area" That is pretty non threatening. This guy is listening.

Yep that's a good change. Now if they would just stop working with Skyride at his dropzone! That's some change I could believe in

Even if he did stop dealing with sLyride, how can we be sure that he did. It is obviously something that went on for a long time without anyone knowing.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[chicagoland 0]

We changed the way non-network DZs are listed at the bottom:

http://proskydiving.com/skydive/IL

[pbwing 0]

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Even if he did stop dealing with sLyride, how can we be sure that he did. It is obviously something that went on for a long time without anyone knowing.

Given the fact that he's been very forthcoming and has been listening to people and changing things that have been pointed out, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt if he said he no longer dealt with Skyride.

Edited to add: You say that no one knew he took SRGC. How do you come to that conclusion. I'm guessing quite a few people knew - probably most of the staff at his DZ knew, definitely his closest competition knew. Other than that, who you expect that he has the responsibility to inform?

[NovaTTT 2]

I interrupt this thread to make the following observation:

Having kept up with this thread, I'm curious that nobody has mentioned there is already at least one online tandem reservation service provider out there.

I don't know their specifics, but they're not marketing, they're not sending to non-local DZs and they're not listing "member" DZs and pretending they are somehow, therefore, superior.

As far as I can see, this company just acts as a server for online tandem reservations through the DZs website.

Clean and simple.

Please resume the discussion.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Jumpdude 0]

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Even if he did stop dealing with sLyride, how can we be sure that he did. It is obviously something that went on for a long time without anyone knowing.

Given the fact that he's been very forthcoming and has been listening to people and changing things that have been pointed out, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt if he said he no longer dealt with Skyride.

I would be open to that, BUT, I as well as a lot of others will probably not drop our guard to that situation.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[Jumpdude 0]

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Edited to add: You say that no one knew he took SRGC. How do you come to that conclusion. I'm guessing quite a few people knew - probably most of the staff at his DZ knew, definitely his closest competition knew. Other than that, who you expect that he has the responsibility to inform?

You are right, so I will say that since it has not been exposed on this level that it was not very openly known. In other words, we all know there are several DZ's in California, Florida and Texas that accept the sLyride GC's, this was not known that widely.
I will add that since we started the DZ's page, nobody has mentioned anything about CSC, unlike a lot of others. We have had at least a dozen DZO's say, "we don't, but that DZ down the road does" . And to be fair to everyone, We are not adding any DZ to that page without confirmation from the DZ whether they take them or not.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[soiledblues 0]

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If you guys know anything about me and my operation, I have a pretty good reputation as an honest businessman.

I'll skip the Nixon one-liner I had for this

Before anyone starts taking Doug at face value, it would be good to do some background research.

A good place to start would be to find out why a four decade legacy of skydiving at Hinckley is coming to an end with Doug's lease expiring. Go into Google, type "Hinckley Airport" and follow the airnav.com link. It has a phone number for the airport owner on the bottom of the page.

Another good place to do some research is with DeKalb County, IL. I'm sure through FOIA there is plenty to be learned.

[pbwing 0]

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Before anyone starts taking Doug at face value, it would be good to do some background research.

A good place to start would be to find out why a four decade legacy of skydiving at Hinckley is coming to an end with Doug's lease expiring. Go into Google, type "Hinckley Airport" and follow the airnav.com link. It has a phone number for the airport owner on the bottom of the page.

Another good place to do some research is with DeKalb County, IL. I'm sure through FOIA there is plenty to be learned.

That, or you could just tell us...

[Jumpdude 0]

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If you guys know anything about me and my operation, I have a pretty good reputation as an honest businessman.

I'll skip the Nixon one-liner I had for this

Before anyone starts taking Doug at face value, it would be good to do some background research.

A good place to start would be to find out why a four decade legacy of skydiving at Hinckley is coming to an end with Doug's lease expiring. Go into Google, type "Hinckley Airport" and follow the airnav.com link. It has a phone number for the airport owner on the bottom of the page.

Another good place to do some research is with DeKalb County, IL. I'm sure through FOIA there is plenty to be learned.

Do tell...

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[davelepka 4]

I think I'm finished with this thread, or the thread is finished with me. In either case, I'll summarize what I beleive to be the tipping point of this whole situation, where it tips from good to very, very bad.

If you want to sell DZOs on your website based on a non-existant, but potential national marketing campaign (despite its pitfalls), and you can get them on board with that concept, more power to you.

If you think that your e-commerce enabling is better than any other solution, and you can get DZOs to pay you a premium percentage rate over the other solutions, more power to you.

The sticking point is when you market online for customers outside of the Chicagoland area, and then charge the highest percent commission on passing those customers along to the DZs in their area.

What you're doing is fishing in another man's pond, and then selling him his own fish. He can't stop you, and he can't fish better than you with your $75,000 fishing pole, so he has no choice but to pony up and pay you for the fish that are rightfully his. The guy has to feed his family, and if he doesn't pay you for the fish, you'll just sell them all to the DZO next door. Plain and simple.