windcatcher 0 #1 September 12, 2005 Had another extremely hard opening for the 2nd time, so hard that my steering line broke, and some of the stitching on my cable housing came undone. What can I do to prevent hard openings, anyone know? I wasn't freeflying or anything, I did a hop-n-pop, got stable, then threw... I realize canopies are creatures, sometimes they just do want they want to do, but is there anything I can do to PREVENT hard openings? This one HURT!!! Oh, I jump a Spectre 190, and it was psycho-packed, if that helps. Thanks! Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #2 September 12, 2005 Sometimes, hard openings just happen. Although, 4 of the biggest culprits are: 1. Bad body position, i.e., dipping a shoulder, deploying in a track or at too high a speed. 2. A lineover can cause a brutal opening. 3. Canopy out of trim. 4. Letting the slider creep down while packing. This is probably the most common. I psycho-pack all my canopies, and when you're laying on the canopy to get the air out, then rolling it, it can sometimes be easy to let the slider slip down a bit. Make sure you roll the tail tight up against the slider to hold it, and that you keep that tension there while rolling it up.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #3 September 12, 2005 QuoteSometimes, hard openings just happen. Although, 4 of the biggest culprits are: Quote3. Canopy out of trim. This really can cause a hard opening? That's probably what it was, I was gonna get a reline pretty soon, and since the steering line broke, that's probably why, right? thanks for the advice Kris! Did ya hear Spanky broke his leg? Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #4 September 12, 2005 Are your locking stow bands on your bag broken? If they are, then maybe you had it dump out of the bag. I suspect that this is the cause of hard openings more often than is acknowledged.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites OSOK 0 #5 September 12, 2005 Even if that happens... shouldn't the slider still be able to do slow the openning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #6 September 12, 2005 It is important in a staged deployment for the D-bag to be a full line stretch when the canopy comes out of the bag. An analogy I once heard, " Tie a 20' rope to your waist and anchor it to a tree. Walk away from the tree until it stops you, now try running away from the tree as fast as you can until full line stretch. Which one hurt more?" There is more to a good opening than just having the slider up against the stops. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #7 September 12, 2005 >but is there anything I can do to PREVENT hard openings? Some tricks: 1. Control the slider. It absolutely must be up against the stops. 2. Quarter the slider well. 3. Position the nose beneath the slider. 4. Make sure the lines are in trim. The most common problem with lines WRT openings is that the brake lines shrink; this generally causes harder openings. 5. Make sure rubber bands are in good condition and stows (especially the one or two closing stows) are a good size (approx 2") 6. Use the manufacturer's recommended pilot chute. An overly large one can cause hard openings. 7. Slow as much as possible before opening. A dead spider for a few seconds before deployment can make hard openings a bit softer. (Not usually an issue in hop and pops though.) If all else fails, a pocket slider can help, but that's generally for consistently bad openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #8 September 12, 2005 QuoteEven if that happens... shouldn't the slider still be able to do slow the openning? Everything about the pack job gets out of position if it dumps out of the bag before tension is on the the lines, the canopy can inflate very unevenly, not allowing the slider to do the usual job when it is comparatively neatly exposed to the air during a properly sequenced deployment.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #9 September 12, 2005 QuoteAre your locking stow bands on your bag broken? If they are, then maybe you had it dump out of the bag. I suspect that this is the cause of hard openings more often than is acknowledged. It may be but I tend to believe that 90% of hard openings are simple bad pack jobs related to the slider not being properly positioned. It's the simplest explanation..."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #10 September 12, 2005 QuoteIt may be but I tend to believe that 90% of hard openings are simple bad pack jobs related to the slider not being properly positioned. It's the simplest explanation... I'm not sure, IMHO. Simplest and correct are not always the same. I've seen line dump cause hard openings, and some hard openings are obviously a function of line trim or canopy design, because it continues no matter how you pack the damn thing. I've had good results with double stowing lines to slow down the relative speed of the bag. Kind of the opposite effect of too big a pilot chute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #11 September 12, 2005 It seems to me that a lot of hard openings are the result of unequal inflation (one side opening first). This often sends the slider down "cockeyed" resulting in less slider drag. This can be caused by a packjob, body position, one riser catching momentarily on a reserve sidewall or riser cover, or just plain "luck of the draw". One thing is for sure, if you jump "no-stretch" lines, especially Spectra (because it's so slippery, and reduces slider drag) your chance of being injured or killed by a hard opening shock is much greater than if you jump Dacron line, which stretches just enough to absorb some of that shock before it hits you. Also be careful of too small a pilot chute. If the pilot chute drag is not sufficient to quickly and firmly pull the bag out of the container (0.6 seconds from pilot chute release to line stretch) then the bag may spin out of the container resulting in line twists. I've done a lot of tests with various size pilot chutes, and one thing seems certain...the smaller the pilot chute, the more line twists occur. While this might not cause a hard opening, on a highly loaded canopy, it could mean a reserve ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davedlg 0 #12 September 12, 2005 Quote 4. Letting the slider creep down while packing. This is probably the most common. I was having fairly brutal openings (on a spectre, no less) when I first started packing. I finally realized that the way I was crouching on the bottom of the cocconed canopy when I was pushing the tail around was causing the slider to creep down away from the stops. Now I am very careful about how I lay on the canopy so that I control the slider and keep it up against the stops and I am having the nice, soft openings the spectre is known for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyinseivLP2 0 #13 September 12, 2005 [5. Make sure rubber bands are in good condition and stows (especially the one or two closing stows) are a good size (approx 2" To add to this make sure that the rubber bands are the right size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #14 September 13, 2005 Quote Are your locking stow bands on your bag broken? If they are, then maybe you had it dump out of the bag. I suspect that this is the cause of hard openings more often than is acknowledged. I have made several requests for video of a hard opening caused by bag strip, i.e. the canopy coming out of the d-bag before line stretch, with zero replies. I have had and seen video of line dump, resulting in normal openings. I agree with several other people that not having the slider against the slider stops is the most common cause of hard openings. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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sundevil777 102 #4 September 12, 2005 Are your locking stow bands on your bag broken? If they are, then maybe you had it dump out of the bag. I suspect that this is the cause of hard openings more often than is acknowledged.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OSOK 0 #5 September 12, 2005 Even if that happens... shouldn't the slider still be able to do slow the openning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #6 September 12, 2005 It is important in a staged deployment for the D-bag to be a full line stretch when the canopy comes out of the bag. An analogy I once heard, " Tie a 20' rope to your waist and anchor it to a tree. Walk away from the tree until it stops you, now try running away from the tree as fast as you can until full line stretch. Which one hurt more?" There is more to a good opening than just having the slider up against the stops. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #7 September 12, 2005 >but is there anything I can do to PREVENT hard openings? Some tricks: 1. Control the slider. It absolutely must be up against the stops. 2. Quarter the slider well. 3. Position the nose beneath the slider. 4. Make sure the lines are in trim. The most common problem with lines WRT openings is that the brake lines shrink; this generally causes harder openings. 5. Make sure rubber bands are in good condition and stows (especially the one or two closing stows) are a good size (approx 2") 6. Use the manufacturer's recommended pilot chute. An overly large one can cause hard openings. 7. Slow as much as possible before opening. A dead spider for a few seconds before deployment can make hard openings a bit softer. (Not usually an issue in hop and pops though.) If all else fails, a pocket slider can help, but that's generally for consistently bad openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #8 September 12, 2005 QuoteEven if that happens... shouldn't the slider still be able to do slow the openning? Everything about the pack job gets out of position if it dumps out of the bag before tension is on the the lines, the canopy can inflate very unevenly, not allowing the slider to do the usual job when it is comparatively neatly exposed to the air during a properly sequenced deployment.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #9 September 12, 2005 QuoteAre your locking stow bands on your bag broken? If they are, then maybe you had it dump out of the bag. I suspect that this is the cause of hard openings more often than is acknowledged. It may be but I tend to believe that 90% of hard openings are simple bad pack jobs related to the slider not being properly positioned. It's the simplest explanation..."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #10 September 12, 2005 QuoteIt may be but I tend to believe that 90% of hard openings are simple bad pack jobs related to the slider not being properly positioned. It's the simplest explanation... I'm not sure, IMHO. Simplest and correct are not always the same. I've seen line dump cause hard openings, and some hard openings are obviously a function of line trim or canopy design, because it continues no matter how you pack the damn thing. I've had good results with double stowing lines to slow down the relative speed of the bag. Kind of the opposite effect of too big a pilot chute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #11 September 12, 2005 It seems to me that a lot of hard openings are the result of unequal inflation (one side opening first). This often sends the slider down "cockeyed" resulting in less slider drag. This can be caused by a packjob, body position, one riser catching momentarily on a reserve sidewall or riser cover, or just plain "luck of the draw". One thing is for sure, if you jump "no-stretch" lines, especially Spectra (because it's so slippery, and reduces slider drag) your chance of being injured or killed by a hard opening shock is much greater than if you jump Dacron line, which stretches just enough to absorb some of that shock before it hits you. Also be careful of too small a pilot chute. If the pilot chute drag is not sufficient to quickly and firmly pull the bag out of the container (0.6 seconds from pilot chute release to line stretch) then the bag may spin out of the container resulting in line twists. I've done a lot of tests with various size pilot chutes, and one thing seems certain...the smaller the pilot chute, the more line twists occur. While this might not cause a hard opening, on a highly loaded canopy, it could mean a reserve ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davedlg 0 #12 September 12, 2005 Quote 4. Letting the slider creep down while packing. This is probably the most common. I was having fairly brutal openings (on a spectre, no less) when I first started packing. I finally realized that the way I was crouching on the bottom of the cocconed canopy when I was pushing the tail around was causing the slider to creep down away from the stops. Now I am very careful about how I lay on the canopy so that I control the slider and keep it up against the stops and I am having the nice, soft openings the spectre is known for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #13 September 12, 2005 [5. Make sure rubber bands are in good condition and stows (especially the one or two closing stows) are a good size (approx 2" To add to this make sure that the rubber bands are the right size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #14 September 13, 2005 Quote Are your locking stow bands on your bag broken? If they are, then maybe you had it dump out of the bag. I suspect that this is the cause of hard openings more often than is acknowledged. I have made several requests for video of a hard opening caused by bag strip, i.e. the canopy coming out of the d-bag before line stretch, with zero replies. I have had and seen video of line dump, resulting in normal openings. I agree with several other people that not having the slider against the slider stops is the most common cause of hard openings. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
