Orgin/history of “skydiving has no social value” statement in waivers?

[rj2163 0]

I jumped at Burnaby in Ontario Canada a couple years ago and one of the waiver items that you had to initial was a statement to effect that “skydiving has no social value”.

It has always stuck in my mind because I thought it was funny but I’ve always wondered what legal issue it's addressing and the legal precedent/case behind it.

I assume it's there because there is some precedent where someone sued someone and part of the basis of their claim was that there is some social value in whatever activity they were doing. Or perhaps someones defence was there was no social value in the activity.

I know it is used at at least one U.S. dz and at least one dz here in Canada. I have no idea if it originated in skydiving or some other activity.

It seems like such a bizaare statement that I'm curious finding out the story behind it.

Anyone know the the reason that statement is in some waivers and legal story or case behind this statement?

rj

[peek 21]

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I jumped at Burnaby in Ontario Canada a couple years ago and one of the waiver items that you had to initial was a statement to effect that “skydiving has no social value”. ....It seems like such a bizarre statement that I'm curious finding out the story behind it.

I disagree completely with that statement. At first glance this may seem to be true.

But, because of my skydiving experience, my involvement with parachute research has benefitted greatly, and I can say that I and my colleagues have contributed significantly to the knowledge base that helps keep our military troops, who use parachutes, out of harm's way.

That would seem to have considerable social value. There are a few military/sport skydivers that frequently these forums that probably feel the same way.

[ghost47 18]

The reason is because of the waiver that jumpers sign. We all know the waiver makes us waive all negligence of anyone at the DZ. The DZ also knows that, in spite of the waivers, it will probably be sued. So it wants to make those waivers as bulletproof as possible.

In certain states, such as California, one way to invalidate a waiver is to claim that the waiver is against public policy. If a waiver of your right to sue over negligence is found to be against public policy, a California court will likely invalidate it and let you sue.

(An example is, if you had to sign an agreement to waive your right to sue negligent doctors just to gain admission to a hospital, a California court likely would not uphold that waiver.)

One issue regarding whether a waiver is against public policy is whether what you do has any sort of redeeming social value. So the DZ is trying to make it harder for you to make that argument, because when you sign the waiver, you agree that what you're doing has no redeeming social value. So it makes it a little harder to argue later that you suddenly DO think it has redeeming social value (not impossible, just harder).

[airtwardo 7]

Yup, you are not involving yourself because you believe it betters society in general. You are not willing putting yourself in peril to help others. You are doing it exclusively for the 'gain' of personal satisfaction.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[SkyPiggie 0]

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"redeeming social value"

Thanks for that explanation, ghost man!

This thread reminds me of the legal challenges by prosecutors against pornographers a few decades ago. (Something I've just read about - SkyPiggie couldn't possibly be that old ) If nudity was deemed to be something like art, then it had "redeeming social value", and it was legal and permissable. However, if the nudity was determined to NOT have redeeming social value, like just hard core sex, then it was illegal.

So what this waiver item seems to imply, is that skydiving is like pornography...

[rj2163 0]

ghost47 - I posted this question a couple weeks ago and forgot that I had....

So, thanks a lot for replying.

rj

[kkeenan 14]

It has been a long-held belief, in some circles, that CRW is the only facet of skydiving that is of any benefit to mankind.

Kevin K.

[Krip 2]

Hi Folks

I'm old and I can't spell, my grammer sucks etc etc.We started jumping before there were any waiver s I think but the momory is the second thing to go.

My initals are R.I.P. so I would actualy enjoy initialing all 15 paragraphs with my initials at the DZ's I visited. Even in perris after watching the silly video with the cali lawyer.

I agree with mr peak jumping has helped a lot of folks even me. But it was a lawyer thing Instead of just initaling everything without reading it. (What the point if your a experienced jumper and want to jump inital the damn thing and move on)

Like the paragraph I agree not to sue but when I do sue I agree to pay evryone I sue $$$. Heard a rumor That Mr Booth actualy went after a sewer (not typo) for sueing in spite of the waiver.

AFAIK it's just a rumor
Then someone slipped in the zinger to make sure some new person wasn't going to put up a stink there was the "lawyer special".

Something like if you want ot retain your right to sue initial here. Pay the DZ a xtra $50

I never saw it happen But I suspect If a person Initialed that and tried and to pay the $50, . I'm guessing all the slots got filled real quick.

We would even ask manifest where the zinger was so we wouldn't have to read all the crap. Manifest even refused that simple request on occasions.

I'm old and I forget anyone else remember the lawyer special aka zinger on the waivers. I used to have a colletion just for S&G

R.I.P. my screen name is a combo of my wifes first initial K and rip. Sexy lady, Naughty girl etc just didn't do anthing for me for a screen name.

Maybe next time if i live that long
FWIW local temp might get into the 70's today.

R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder