Closed DZ

[mpkossl 0]

Has anyone heard from Bo Coody(DZO-indiana skydiving Academy)? DZ closed 3 weeks after i paid for the year.He will not answer phone or return calls.It's been 3 years now,would like to get cash back and start jumping before
i'm too old.

[chuckakers 426]

Quote

Has anyone heard from Bo Coody(DZO-indiana skydiving Academy)? DZ closed 3 weeks after i paid for the year.He will not answer phone or return calls.It's been 3 years now,would like to get cash back and start jumping before
i'm too old.

Paid for the year?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[mpkossl 0]

yes,i tried to jump every 30 days. i rive over the road so i don't get out much

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Dude, If the DZ has been closed for 3 years your money is gone, short of you beating his ass for it.

[pyrotech 0]

Quote

i rive over the road so i don't get out much

What does this even mean?

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

i rive over the road so i don't get out much

What does this even mean?

Probably a long haul trucker...

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

i rive over the road so i don't get out much

What does this even mean?

"I drive 'over-the-road', so I don't get out much".

"Rive" should be "drive", and "over the road" is a term used by long-haul truckers. so he's always out in his big rig driving around the country, and doesn't have much spare time at home to skydive.

[pyrotech 0]

I see. Thanks JohnRich and Amazon.

[Andy9o8 2]

I'm a lawyer, but I don't know Indiana law (without looking it up). You need to consult an Indiana attorney about whether, after 3 years, the deadline under Indiana law (it's called a "statute of limitations") has or has not expired yet. If it has not, then you can sue the guy.

If you can and do sue him, and (one way or another) you win and get a judgment against him, you still have to actually collect the money from him to pay the judgment. There is a way to do it, but it may not be easy, especially if he's either broke, or bankrupt, or has hidden all his money and property. A lawyer will explain this to you in greater detail.

If you're not sure where to find the right kind of lawyer, call the local bar association of the county in which you live (most counties have local bar associations). They will probably have a "lawyer referral service" that can give you some guidance in finding a lawyer. Or, you can call your state bar association, which probably has a similar service.

Last word: Do not take legal advice from ANYONE who is not a lawyer. NO EXCEPTIONS!

Good luck.

[nbblood 0]

And how much do you suppose he'll pay his lawyers to (maybe) collect what sounds like a few hundred bucks? I'm gonna guess totally not worth the time, money, and effort. Of course he may win a judgment for legal fees. Then he's got to squeeze more blood out of the turnip.

Personally I'd consult the tax preparer on how to write it off on taxes and cut my losses at that. Then again, I'm not an attorney so what do I know?

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[Andy9o8 2]

He didn't say how much his claim was for. If it's only a small-claims court matter, a 20-minute sit-down with a lawyer could help walk him through the process. He seemed to not know where to begin. That's why I took the time to type out some information, generic though it may be, that I thought he might find helpful.

And I'm OK with that.

[mpkossl 0]

sorry about the spelling.i need bigger keys for my club fingers. the amount is 450.00. i am thinking about the small claims court way.thanks to all for your help

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

sorry about the spelling.i need bigger keys for my club fingers. the amount is 450.00. i am thinking about the small claims court way.thanks to all for your help

Don't forget to claim interest on your money, too, starting with the day you paid it. I looked it up, and under Indiana law you're entitled to 8% interest.

http://www.carreonandassociates.com/articles/collectionlaws.htm#Indiana

[devildog 0]

Quote

sorry about the spelling.i need bigger keys for my club fingers. the amount is 450.00. i am thinking about the small claims court way.thanks to all for your help

If you're thinking small claims, check the SOL. If its not up by now, I imagine it will be in the very near future.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[davelepka 4]

You realize that for you to win in small claims court, first they have to be able to find him to serve him. If you know where the guy is, how about just go there yourself and try to work something out?

Also, you may have paid the business, not the individual. In that case, depending on how he 'went out of business' you may not have any luck in collecting, or at the very least, be in line with others looking for monies owed. Chances are, if the DZ went out of business three years ago, all financial matters have been cleared up and what's done is done.

You really needed to follow up on this the first time you tried to go the DZ and found it closed. That would have been the time to track down the DZO or file a claim against him or the business. At this point, you should just write this off and move on. Maybe your accountant can find a way to write off the loss, and you can recoup $100 in a tax credit.

If you want to jump, just go jump. If all you have to spend on jumping is the $450 you gave this guy, don't even get started. The least amount you would spend to get a license is $1200, and then you need a rig for $2000 and it's $25/jump after that. Some people drop $450 in a long weekend in jumps, but it's not unreasonable to figure that you would spend twice that in jumps for a slow year.

It sounds counter-intuituve, but it costs more the less you jump. If you let your currency lapse, you need to do a recurency jump with an instructor just to get back in the air, and that can run $75. Regardless of how many jumps you do, a rig needs to repacked with the 6 months to be legal to jump at that runs $75, so the more do, the less you spend on rigging per jump. If you jump 5 times in six months, it's still $75 for the repack.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

sorry about the spelling.i need bigger keys for my club fingers. the amount is 450.00. i am thinking about the small claims court way.thanks to all for your help

If you're thinking small claims, check the SOL. If its not up by now, I imagine it will be in the very near future.

(SOL = statute of limitations).

Imagining it does really nothing. It varies from state to state; and within a state, from case type to case type. Also, if you click on the link in my post above and read it, you'll see that I've already looked it up for him, and it's posted in the link.

As it says, the statute of limitations in Indiana is 10 years on an "open account" - which this is probably considered to be if there's no written "agreement" setting forth the terms of the agreement - or 4 years on a written contract for goods, which Indiana courts may or may not deem this to be, depending on whether the jumps he has prepaid-for are considered, under Indiana law, to be "goods" or "services".

[Andy9o8 2]

All of the following, I'll concede, is subject to the "Is it really worth it?" test. That being said....

Quote

You realize that for you to win in small claims court, first they have to be able to find him to serve him.

That's generally true, but there's also a procedure in many states called "service [of process] by publication." Indiana has such a procedure; it's under Rule 4.13 of the Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/rules/trial_proc/index.html#_Toc244662890

Quote

If you know where the guy is, how about just go there yourself and try to work something out?

Agree; but even if he could find the guy in person, there's the risk of it turning into an ugly confrontation. Just something for him to consider. I'm not one to urge people to run out and give lawyers business, but sometimes using lawyers, or just the small-claims courts, as your intermediary is a way of avoiding a nasty confrontation, and with some actual authority behind it, too.

Quote

Also, you may have paid the business, not the individual. In that case, depending on how he 'went out of business' you may not have any luck in collecting, or at the very least, be in line with others looking for monies owed. Chances are, if the DZ went out of business three years ago, all financial matters have been cleared up and what's done is done.

That's true, if the business was a legally limited liability entity like a corporation, etc. But the corporate form is not something you can hide behind in order to commit fraud. And IM(P)O, taking someone's money for a year's worth of product 3 days before you go out of business, and then not refunding it, is at least civil fraud, and possibly criminal fraud, too. There is a principle called "piercing the corporate veil" under which you can go after a corporate principal personally under certain circumstances, and fraud is one of those circumstances.

So if I were suing this guy, I'd not only go after the business (if it's incorporated), I'd sue him personally. If I got service of process on him (even by publication), and then I got a judgment against him (which in this case seems quite likely), it's true I'd still have to collect, but I'd have a judgment against him that's good for the rest of his life. That means, for example, I'd be holding a ticket to go after his assets anywhere in the country, or his wages in any state that permits garnishment of wages (not all do, but Indiana does).

Quote

You really needed to follow up on this the first time you tried to go the DZ and found it closed. That would have been the time to track down the DZO or file a claim against him or the business.

I agree that "sooner" is a better strategy than "later". But the OP is still within Indiana's statute of limitations so, legally at least, it's still not too late to sue on the claim.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

legally at least, it's still not too late to sue on the claim.

All of what you said is 'technically' true, my suggestions were from the 'chances of actual success' camp, and that his chances are pretty low.

If the guy closed up shop, and walked off with his creditors money (I guess the OP is a creditor at this point) with no notice or attempt to settle, the chances of him responding to, and making good on a small claims suit are probably not that good.

On top of that, it could be 20% or more of the total monies owed just to file the claim, and even if he won a settlement including his filing fees, he's still out of pocket those fees until (if ever) the guy makes good on the judgement.

None of that is mentioning the OPs time in filing and actually going to court. As a OTR driver, he's probably not home all that much, and it might be tough for him to make it all happen.

[JerryBaumchen 1,434]

Hi dave,

Quote

On top of that, it could be 20% or more of the total monies owed just to file the claim, and even if he won a settlement including his filing fees, he's still out of pocket those fees until (if ever) the guy makes good on the judgement.

Not in Oregon. I've been thru Small Claims many times; every penny expended has been collected, including the cost of having the sheriff go out to garnish a bank account.

I would expect that in some states this will vary,

JerryBaumchen

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Quote

Quote

sorry about the spelling.i need bigger keys for my club fingers. the amount is 450.00. i am thinking about the small claims court way.thanks to all for your help

If you're thinking small claims, check the SOL. If its not up by now, I imagine it will be in the very near future.

(SOL = statute of limitations).

Imagining it does really nothing. It varies from state to state; and within a state, from case type to case type. Also, if you click on the link in my post above and read it, you'll see that I've already looked it up for him, and it's posted in the link.

As it says, the statute of limitations in Indiana is 10 years on an "open account" - which this is probably considered to be if there's no written "agreement" setting forth the terms of the agreement - or 4 years on a written contract for goods, which Indiana courts may or may not deem this to be, depending on whether the jumps he has prepaid-for are considered, under Indiana law, to be "goods" or "services".

Am I the only one who thought SOL stood for Shit Out of Luck?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Am I the only one who thought SOL stood for Shit Out of Luck?

Probably not. It fits: if you blow the SOL, you're SOL.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Hi dave,

Quote

On top of that, it could be 20% or more of the total monies owed just to file the claim, and even if he won a settlement including his filing fees, he's still out of pocket those fees until (if ever) the guy makes good on the judgement.

Not in Oregon. I've been thru Small Claims many times; every penny expended has been collected, including the cost of having the sheriff go out to garnish a bank account.

I would expect that in some states this will vary,

In most states that I know of, the filing fee, sheriff's service costs, etc. are collectable as part of the judgment. That's pretty standard. So the key is not making it collectable, the key is collecting it.