garrywing 0 #1 June 18, 2011 Hi - I'm a CFI in San Diego and am working on an article on Parachute Jump Zones in the county and some heads-up tips for pilots flying in and and around them. Any feedback you can offer that would be helpful to pilots (who generally know nothing about skydiving) would be greatly appreciated! A couple questions that might help to get started: - How wide of a radius around the depicted jump zone would we expect to find jumpers? - After we hear on the radio that jumpers are out, how long does it generally take until the last one has landed? - Give me an idea of the vertical descent rate (before/after chute deploys), so I can make the point about how it's impractical to "see and avoid" a jumper. - How many jumpers are there generally in each plane, and how often (times/hour, times/day) do most jump centers go up (generally)... Any other tips or insight you think that would help pilots fly more safely around you! Thanks; you can look for the article on www.FlyTheWing.com after July 1st. Garry Wing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #2 June 18, 2011 The answers to your questions will vary from DZ to DZ, and from day to day. Different DZs use different planes, and the wind conditions for the day will dictate how from we might from the DZ. A safe estimate would be to stay outside of a 2 mile radius from the DZ, and to stay out for 10 min after the 'jumpers away' call. Both of those figures are generous, with a nice margin of safety built in. That's in relation to parachutes, mind you. The jump plane itself may cut a wider path through the sky than a 2 mile radius on descent, but that's what radios and ATC are for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #3 June 18, 2011 Quote That's in relation to parachutes, mind you. The jump plane itself may cut a wider path through the sky than a 2 mile radius on descent... Good thing to point out to the guy, thanks. Quote ...but that's what radios and ATC are for. But these things are only bac-up! That's why we still make aircraft canopies / windscreens CLEAR! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #4 June 18, 2011 Give Buzz Fink a call at Skydive San Diego. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #5 June 19, 2011 Better yet, get some jump pilot training. We can always use more pilots! And what a better way to learn for your artical!!!!Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 3 #6 June 19, 2011 Wingsuit jumpers may fly a mile or more out to the side of the line of flight of the jump plane, on either side, and are very hard to see. Some may stay in flight up to 3 to 4 minutes before opening their parachute.Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #7 June 19, 2011 QuoteWingsuit jumpers may fly a mile or more out to the side of the line of flight of the jump plane, on either side, and are very hard to see. Some may stay in flight up to 3 to 4 minutes before opening their parachute. And sometimes it rains crew dawgs all day long... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #8 June 19, 2011 QuoteWingsuit jumpers may fly a mile or more out to the side of the line of flight of the jump plane, on either side, and are very hard to see. Some may stay in flight up to 3 to 4 minutes before opening their parachute. And they may well go 3 or more miles upwind before exiting.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flashvortx 0 #9 June 19, 2011 I would say if you are going to be landing at an airport with skydiving operations, it could be very beneficial to check the dropzone website or call them to see where the jumpers land. Lodi, CA is probably pretty rare, but our (skydivers) pattern and landing area pretty much blocks off runway 12/30. If someone tried to land or takeoff while we were decending under canopy, it could get ugly. I think all the A/FD says is that there are parachute operations south of 8/26 and that doesn't point us out too well. I don't think we've had any problems since I've been jumping. Dropzones are generally open during daylight hours with a rare load going up for a night jump every once and a while. Anywhere from 3 to 22ish jumpers in standard skydiving planes. On a busy day at a busy dz, they could easily have two twin otters going up and down all day without a break. Bigger planes can get up in 15-20 minutes and back down in 5-10 or so. Many skydivers can get down to 3,000 feet in about 45 seconds and then be on the ground just a few minutes later. If I wanted to deploy at 13,000 feet and enjoy the view or play with my canopy, it could possibly be 15 minutes before I'm down. I've only jumped at big dropzones so this is biased towards the busy side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #10 June 19, 2011 Quote A couple questions that might help to get started: - How wide of a radius around the depicted jump zone would we expect to find jumpers? Technically, we can go up to a radius of 25 miles but that's rare. Up to 2 miles is within the norm and 3-5 miles for special occasions. Sometimes it's more than 5 miles for cross-country jumps but that's usually within 7-8 miles depending on wind conditions. - After we hear on the radio that jumpers are out, how long does it generally take until the last one has landed? Normal canopy time is 1 minute per 1000 ft. Some canopies much faster but 1/1000 is a good general number. Be aware that how many minutes under canopy depends on deployment altitude. - Give me an idea of the vertical descent rate (before/after chute deploys), so I can make the point about how it's impractical to "see and avoid" a jumper. In freefall, descent rate can vary from, say, from 100mph up to 200mph depending on body position. Generally, you could use an average of say, 150mph. Under canopy, as mentioned earlier it's about 1000ft/minute. - How many jumpers are there generally in each plane, and how often (times/hour, times/day) do most jump centers go up (generally)... Anywhere from 30 down to 4 depending on aircraft type. We are limited to daylight hours sunrise to sunset. Please note that we do night jumps occasionally and those can happen anywhere from 1 hour after sunset until sunrise the next day. Normally, night jumps happen between sunset and midnight. Any other tips or insight you think that would help pilots fly more safely around you! - Normal jump operations are anywhere from 9000 ft to 14000ft AGL. We occasionally do higher altitudes. The higher the more rare. 18K - 22K AGL is more common than higher altitudes. - Not all DZs are shown on the sectionals. Have them get familiar with what's in their own areas. - I would recommend that pilots visit the DZs in their areas to talk with the drop zone owners to get a better view of operations there. - I would recommend that pilots visit DZ on Safety Day every spring. Not only would they learn something of skydiving operations but they could also teach us more about GA operations. Thanks; you can look for the article on www.FlyTheWing.com after July 1st. Garry Wing Thanks for you concern and your help!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #11 June 19, 2011 Most permanent DZs are indicated on sectional charts. Not so on IFR chrts and a lot of pilots fly with IFR charts even when VFR. GPSs may not display DZs. Notams (WTF?) are your friend. If you can say poof, there is a DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garrywing 0 #12 June 21, 2011 Thanks to all for your comments and tips! It answered a lot of questions I had about skydivers, and I'm sure it will help many other pilots too! - Garry Wing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #13 June 22, 2011 What wasn't stated clearly but implied is that you may find OPEN canopies at HIGH altitude (up to 12000 to 18000') upto MANY miles from the landing area which is usually at the airport but may not be. Its not common but not unusual either. If you haven't already contact the United States Parachute Association at uspa.org. They probably have the fact sheet ready for you. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garrywing 0 #14 June 23, 2011 Got that; thanks. Here's a draft of the article... Please shoot me any notes on anything I need to clarify or fix... http://www.garrywing.com/308/Blog/Entries/2011/6/27_Jumpers_Away!.html Garry Wing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 3 #15 June 24, 2011 I didn't see anything about wingsuits.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcf9xdr-9KY......They are at almost every drop zone..... Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
