Requirements for Demo Jumps?

[sacex250 0]

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Sure looks like Sparky has shown printed evidence of a definition by the FAA where as you have provided hearsay.

Now the FAA had the flexibility to interpret how they like, but if I were a betting man, I think that the definition laid down in 91.119 is pretty enforceable in a court.

Here is the FAA opinion (from the FAA's Chief Counsel), which has been backed up in several legal cases.

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The FAA has actually has stated in a 1979 Legal Opinion that it will be
determined on a case-by-case basis. Below is a copy of the Opinion--note the FAR
references have changed.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"In response to your letter dated August 28, 1979, and subsequent telephone
conversation, we offer the following answers to your three questions. The facts
on which our interpretations are based are as follows:
A fixed wing aircraft operating at an altitude of 600 feet flew directly over a
populated subdivision of Prince William County, Virginia. The subdivision
consisted of at least 40 residential homes on one acre lots. While operating in
this area, the aircraft made a number of steep turns over one of these houses.
1. What is the interpretation of the term "congested area of a city, town or
settlement" as that term is used in Section 91.79(b) of the FARs?
The meaning of the term "congested area" is determined on a case-by-case basis.
It first appeared in the Air Commerce Regulations of 1926. No abstract
regulatory definition has yet been developed. However, the following guidelines
indicate the interpretations of the Civil Aeronautics board (now National
Transportation Safety Board) in attempting to give meaning to the term.
a. The purpose of the rule is to provide minimum safe altitudes for flight and
to provide adequate protection to persons on the ground. Thus, it distinguishes
flight over sparsely settled areas as well as large metropolitan areas from low
flying aircraft. Thus, size of the area is not controlling, and violations of
the rule have been sustained for operation of aircraft: (i) over a small
congested area consisting of approximately 10 houses and a school (Allman, 5
C.A.B. 8 (1940)); (ii) over campus of a university (Tobin, 5 C.A.B. 162,
164(1941); (iii) over a beach area along a highway, and (iv) over a boy's camp
where there were numerous people on the docks and children at play on shore.
b. The presence of people is important to the determination of whether a
particular area is "congested." Thus, no violation was found in the case of a
flight over a large shop building and four one-family dwellings because, in the
words of the CAB examiner, "it is not known (to the court) whether the dwellings
were occupied." In that case, the area surrounding the buildings was open, flat
and semiarid.
c. The term has been interpreted to prohibit overflights that cut the corners of
large, heavily congested residential areas.
As made clear in FAR 91.79, the congested area must be an area of a city, town,
or settlement.
2. What is the interpretation of the term "sparsely populated areas" as
contained in Section 91.79(c)?
While this term is not expressly defined, we can conclude that it is something
other than a congested area under Section 91.79(a). A subdivision of at least 40
occupied residential homes on adjacent one acre lots in Price William County,
VA, would not be considered a sparsely populated area. Such a subdivision would
well constitute a "settlement" under the rule.

Please feel free to contact us if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

EDWARD P. FABERMAN
Acting Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulation and Enforcement Division
Office of the Chief Counsel"

Notice that the rule that Sparky quoted doesn't define what a "congested area of a town or settlement" actually is. This is a long standing issue in numerous areas of FAA regulation including: minimum safe altitudes, parachuting, ultralights, aerobatics, and helicopter external load operations; all of which have "congested area" and "open air assembly of persons" restrictions.

It's hardly "hearsay" if the FAA openly admits to the policy in writing.

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There is no regulatory definition of 'congested area'. Administrative case law
has determined what is congested on a case-by-case basis. [Case references are
available on request]). The public should be aware that an area does not have to
be completely free of persons or properties to be considered noncongested.
Additionally, it is possible that small, noncongested areas as small as an acre
or two may allow aerobatics to be performed without violating 91.303's
stipulations."

http://www.faa.gov/programs/en/ane/noise/submit.cfm

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Sure looks like Sparky has shown printed evidence of a definition by the FAA where as you have provided hearsay.

Now the FAA had the flexibility to interpret how they like, but if I were a betting man, I think that the definition laid down in 91.119 is pretty enforceable in a court.

91.119 does not contain the definition that sparky mentioned.

There is no definition for "congested area" in FAR Section 1.1 "Definitions".

I have not found the source for, "1.Congested area. A city town or settlement, or open air assembly of people."

I am not saying it does not exist. But it is not part of 91.119, and not part of 1.1, and I have not found that text.

For that statement to be considered evidence, we will need a proper verifiable reference for it.