when is a hook knife required these days?

[mixedup 0]

(haven't done my first jump yet but am curious about this)

I had thought the hook knife was used to cut away, however starting to readup / watch videos, it seems these days there are more advanced systems to cut away.

Question - Does a sky diver still need to use a knife sometime? And if yes what percent of time would they need it? (e.g. only 5% of malfunctions?)

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[sundevil777 102]

It was never used as a method to get rid of the main canopy. Release mechanisms have evolved, but the knife was not one of them.

Appropriate circumstances for the use of a hook knife are much less likely than you have speculated. You don't need to even think about the use of one, seriously. It is good that you asked the question, rather than carry around the misconception they are often used.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[LongWayToFall 0]

As far as I know, knives were never used to cut away the main canopy. Before they had cutaway systems, I believe the reserve was simply deployed alongside the main.

You will never get a clear answer regarding the number of mals requiring a hook knife, they are very rare and all are special circumstances. Many jumpers do not carry them, although it is not a bad idea, because there ARE circumstances that may require them.
The reasons I carry a hook knife (2 actually) are because I have started to do CREW, which is a skydiving discipline where open canopies are linked together. The chance of entanglement is high, and you just might need a knife to remove some lines that are tangled around you.
Besides entanglements, there are only really 2 situations I can think of that really need a knife. The first, is a line over on your reserve. Line overs are rare, and to have one on your reserve is even more rare. Still, it might be wise to cut the line and use your risers/ toggle and riser to flare.
The other situation, is if your reserve deploys inside the airplane, and gets tangled with tail or some other object. Your reserve is part of the harness, there is no handle to cut it away like there is on the main, so your only option would be to cut the reserve away with the knife, and deploy your main.
When you get into the sport, these sorts of things will be covered in your instruction, don't spend too much time worrying about hook knives.
Now hurry up and make a jump!

[quade 4]

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You don't need to even think about the use of one, seriously.

You've never been around CRW, have you?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sundevil777 102]

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You don't need to even think about the use of one, seriously.

You've never been around CRW, have you?

I did a lot of it in my early days, but I was addressing a person that hasn't even jumped yet, so he doesn't even need to think about it. I didn't say there was no reason for anyone to ever have one, just that he didn't need to think about it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[quade 4]

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Question - Does a sky diver still need to use a knife sometime? And if yes what percent of time would they need it? (e.g. only 5% of malfunctions?)

Short answer, yes.

The most common use of a hook knife is to extricate yourself from being tangled up in lines during a Canopy Relative Work (CRW) skydive. CRW is where people have deployed their canopies, fly very close together and then join up in formation with one another. Typically this involves wrapping a foot into another person's lines as they fly.

See attached. (Photo by me)

If during this type of flight, something "bad" happened and one jumper got tangled in another jumpers lines, then the lines might need to be cut very quickly.

This can also happen accidentally on a normal jump, but with much less frequency.

In about 3000 jumps over about 11 years I never used my hook knife, but I always had one ready.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sundevil777 102]

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In about 3000 jumps over about 11 years I never used my hook knife, but I always had one ready.

That means you had a hook knife on your first jump, and so he would also want to have it available. I trust that you didn't mean that.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[quade 4]

Well, I probably only did my first dozen or so without one.

Like I said "in about 3000." I wasn't trying to imply precision in numbers there.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Squeak 17]

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Well, I probably only did my first dozen or so without one.

Like I said "in about 3000." I wasn't trying to imply precision in numbers there.

However you do seem to want to over educate unnecessarily. (or, just preach to show others how articulate you are).
Ever heard of too much information for a particular experience level?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[quade 4]

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Well, I probably only did my first dozen or so without one.
Like I said "in about 3000." I wasn't trying to imply precision in numbers there.

However you do seem to want to over educate unnecessarily. (or, just preach to show others how articulate you are).
Ever heard of too much information for a particular experience level?

We must live in different worlds when a post of 129 words is considered an over education.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Baksteen 84]

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The first, is a line over on your reserve. Line overs are rare, and to have one on your reserve is even more rare. Still, it might be wise to cut the line and use your risers/ toggle and riser to flare.

Please do not flare with a toggle and a rear-riser.

Always use either two toggles or two rear risers.

There is too much difference between the flare "input" needed on a toggle and a riser to reliably flare with one of each.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Squeak 17]

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Well, I probably only did my first dozen or so without one.
Like I said "in about 3000." I wasn't trying to imply precision in numbers there.

However you do seem to want to over educate unnecessarily. (or, just preach to show others how articulate you are).
Ever heard of too much information for a particular experience level?

We must live in different worlds when a post of 129 words is considered an over education.

we live in different worlds for a whole lot of reasons,
One being where you think word count, counts for education and not information.
SD point was and i think still is that at the OPs level there is stuff they dont need to know yet, too much info is not always a good thing.
You OTOH seem to not give a rats arse, and foist your oh so worldly knowledge on everybody all the time.
Sometimes wisdom is demonstrated by NOT opening your trap (even in a text based media).

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[mr2mk1g 10]

To answer the question asked - when is a hook knife required - depends where you are in the world.

In the UK, for example, it is mandatory for every qualified skydiver to carry a hook knife on every skydive.

In the US, there is no such rule, though many people still cary one for the same reasons that the UK make it mandatory.

I see you're in Oz - over there, I'm not sure off the top of my head what the rule is.

For reasons why you may be required to carry a knife, see above.

[fendor1369 0]

In my 130 or so jumps I have never seen the use for one. But I am still new to the sport. Even when jumping in the water I dont bring one.

John - D.S 1313

"I'll jump it, Np. It's all good"

[mixedup 0]

thanks for the great replies - oh - also wondering (may as well as the stupid questions):

(a) carrying a knife be a small risk in it's own right?

(b) what about the chance of dropping the knife when you go to use it anyway? or if it's on a cord it flying around in the wind and cutting you if you do drop it

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[LongWayToFall 0]

I think I will make a new thread, I have heard it both ways. I used to think that using only risers was the way to go, but then I heard otherwise.

[LongWayToFall 0]

(a) How do you mean? Is carrying a spare tire in your car a risk in it's own right? Not really. Hook knives are out of the way, and won't just cut things by themselves.

(b) Yes there is a chance of dropping it. That is why it is better to carry 2, like most CRW dogs do.
On a cord flying around? I don't get what you mean.

I wouldn't worry about it, when you get into a situation where you do need a hook knife, it will be pretty clear.

[thrillstalker 0]

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thanks for the great replies - oh - also wondering (may as well as the stupid questions):

(a) carrying a knife be a small risk in it's own right?

(b) what about the chance of dropping the knife when you go to use it anyway? or if it's on a cord it flying around in the wind and cutting you if you do drop it

this is a link to a picture of a skydiving hook knife. if you cut yourself with it, you had to try really hard

i jump with one. most people's argument is that you will never need one. the same can be said of an aad, but most people use them.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[NWFlyer 2]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3969158

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[faulknerwn 38]

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(b) what about the chance of dropping the knife when you go to use it anyway? or if it's on a cord it flying around in the wind and cutting you if you do drop it

The standard CRW joke is that if you need to use a hook knife, pull out your first one and throw it away because you were gonna drop it anyway. Then pull out your second and get to work ;)

[wasatchrider 0]

I had a friend that had to use one to cut her hair when she got it tangled on an exit point on an A I think but I don't remember the whole story. This has nothing to do with skydiving but as far as I know it's for lineovers you cant clear.

BASE 1519

[labrys 0]

I've used the butt end of a hook knife to coax that little Velcro strap on a factory diver out of its channel when it retracted into it's little slot by accident. I've also used one to trim the excess from a closing loop and trim worn fabric and loose threads from my booties.

I still make sure it's where I expect it to be every jump though.

Just in case I want to stay occupied when there's little or nothing else I can do to be productive.

Owned by Remi #?

[skinnay 0]

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In my 130 or so jumps I have never seen the use for one. But I am still new to the sport. Even when jumping in the water I dont bring one.

Since by the time you find a use for it, it will be too late. So consider having a premature reserve deployment in the door and being stuck on the tail. Or something similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM

Or a cutaway and a reserve line over?

Seriously, just go get a hook knife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

a) No, not really. It's secured inside its own pouch. Even once extracted, it's a hook knife, not an open blade (see link below). You couldn't really cut yourself with it if you tried... maybe if you stuck the hook up your nose or something you could, (which I've heard of - probably as an urban legend) but the chances of anything going wrong are slim to none. As with any item of additional equipment there are slim entanglement risks but jumpers should seek to minimise those with proper placement and if you find yourself in an orientation which could cause an entanglement with a hook knife, you have bigger issues and could find virtually any part of your gear becoming entangled.

b) Carry two - in different locations (have one say, high and right and one low and left) in case entangled or otherwise incapacitated. Design is also important - some have little finger holes which can be difficult to use in a stressful situation. Why not spend $5 more on a knife with a nice big handhold that you're less likely to drop. Those more likely to need the use of a hook knife often go for a larger design altogether with a proper handle. The majority just carry a small one as the likelihood of actually needing one is so small that the arse ache of having to carry a larger one ought weighs the perceived benefits.

http://www.square1.com/manufacturers/square1/hookknives/4inchslottedA.jpg

[pyrotech 0]

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Or something similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM

I'm still really new to this sport, and was really confused as to what happened here. To me, it looks like:

The reserve deployed while the person still in the aircraft was trying to get the jumper's attention. Apparently the person in the aircraft knew something was awry. The reserve then caught air and pulled the jumper off of the wing. The jumper then tried to untwist the reserve, but wasn't able to. The jumper pulled main, and was able to pull in reserve canopy.

What was the person in the aircraft holding? At first I thought it was the shoulder strap on the jumper's harness. It looks like whatever it was is frayed.