airtwardo 7 #51 May 20, 2011 The people who are objecting most strenuously to <200 jump POV'ers seem to be deliberately ignoring and misinterpreting any valid argument against their position. Quote Might be because they know the argument isn't really valid. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trafficdiver 8 #52 May 20, 2011 Quote So you tell me, which resulted in more fatalities last year: Expert skydivers swooping? Or newbies with small cameras? If you're the one going in, does it really matter? BTW If I want a pic on facebook, I'll hire a camera guy to take it for me. Or I'll trade him something of value. Like a lot of beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ridestrong 1 #53 May 20, 2011 Quote Let's take a more reasonable analogy. Take two guys who have never flown any camera before and have no training on it. First guy wants to do 4-way video. He talks to a local video flyer who gives him some pointers and helps him set up his helmet. He says "jump with that team over there; they're good and they will give you something stable to film." He prepares for the jump, makes a plan and intends to follow it. Second guy wants to improve his sitfly. He's just learning sitflying, and he decides to add a camera but not change any other part of his skydive. He's just going to "turn it on and forget about it." In that case, yes, the second jumper is the more dangerous of the two - because he is doing something that he is unprepared for. In fact he has made the decision that he will NOT be prepared for it. In other words... jumper 2 is a moron who did no homework and jumper 1 got some quick education. It's still just another analogy. There's no reason why jumper 2 can't be as safe as jumper 1. It's all about the individual and the steps they take to educate themselves in becoming a more aware jumper. Taken the right steps, camera flier 2 can be just as safe as flier 1 and vice versa.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Morne 0 #54 May 20, 2011 QuoteQuote Let's take a more reasonable analogy. Take two guys who have never flown any camera before and have no training on it. First guy wants to do 4-way video. He talks to a local video flyer who gives him some pointers and helps him set up his helmet. He says "jump with that team over there; they're good and they will give you something stable to film." He prepares for the jump, makes a plan and intends to follow it. Second guy wants to improve his sitfly. He's just learning sitflying, and he decides to add a camera but not change any other part of his skydive. He's just going to "turn it on and forget about it." In that case, yes, the second jumper is the more dangerous of the two - because he is doing something that he is unprepared for. In fact he has made the decision that he will NOT be prepared for it. In other words... jumper 2 is a moron who did no homework and jumper 1 got some quick education. It's still just another analogy. There's no reason why jumper 2 can't be as safe as jumper 1. It's all about the individual and the steps they take to educate themselves in becoming a more aware jumper. Taken the right steps, camera flier 2 can be just as safe as flier 1 and vice versa. Personally I would feel more comfortable doing what jumper 2 does - with the added briefings etc for camera. I would just want to jump straight into 4 way filming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hackish 8 #55 May 20, 2011 Lots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #56 May 21, 2011 QuoteQuote First guy wants to do 4-way video. He talks to a local video flyer who gives him some pointers and helps him set up his helmet. He says "jump with that team over there; they're good and they will give you something stable to film." He prepares for the jump, makes a plan and intends to follow it. Second guy wants to improve his sitfly. He's just learning sitflying, and he decides to add a camera but not change any other part of his skydive. He's just going to "turn it on and forget about it." So again, a fair comparison: Two jumpers with exactly the same experience One, the POVer, does it just to document his jump. The other, a camera flyer, jumps with an inherent obligation to get good footage. Both take the addition of the camera very seriously. Both seek out advice and instruction. Both prepare accordingly. The POVer has a higher potential to hurt himself or others? You can honestly, without assuming there are personality differences in the two, allege that? Yes, assuming that he's not jumping by himself (in which case the camera isn't going to see anything useful or help). The distraction from a camera means you don't fly as well. Not flying as well means the new sit flyer is more likely to cork from a bad dock or something else which can injure any one above him. The camera flyer already familiar with his chosen body position and not trying to touch the people he's filming isn't going to have the same problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #57 May 21, 2011 >Taken the right steps, camera flier 2 can be just as safe as flier 1 and vice versa. Agreed. For guy #2, take away the "learning to sitfly" part and add in training for camera flying and he could be just as safe. But as I've said before, the statement "I'll just turn it on and forget it" while concentrating on something else IS dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #58 May 22, 2011 QuoteLots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael bears repeating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #59 May 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteLots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael bears repeating. +1 And.... I'd like to stress that learning to be a camera flyer should include many training jumps before you ever buy a camera. - learning to fly your camera wings w/no cameras - learning to use your ringsight (just the sight w/no camera) - learning to fly camera slots. Again, w/out a camera. -etc....Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #60 May 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Lots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael bears repeating. +1 And.... I'd like to stress that learning to be a camera flyer should include many training jumps before you ever buy a camera. - learning to fly your camera wings w/no cameras - learning to use your ringsight (just the sight w/no camera) - learning to fly camera slots. Again, w/out a camera. -etc.... And yet the latest 200jump wannabe cameraflyer who came to me for advice went on the next load to film a 4way, on his first ever jump with camera, and first ever jump with camera wings, and without a cutaway on his helmet. [place bangs-head-against-wall-smiley here] "The cutaway comes later, no I don't want to do a wings jump without camera, I want to jump my camera NOW" Then don't ask for advice ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites xtheowl 0 #61 May 23, 2011 Hey I found some of my old 35mm pics! Kinda grainy, but oh well... http://i.imgur.com/KVcDK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BfE8b.jpg http://i.imgur.com/uLVl6.jpg I have some other nice under canopy shots, but I'll have to dig them up... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Trafficdiver 8 #52 May 20, 2011 Quote So you tell me, which resulted in more fatalities last year: Expert skydivers swooping? Or newbies with small cameras? If you're the one going in, does it really matter? BTW If I want a pic on facebook, I'll hire a camera guy to take it for me. Or I'll trade him something of value. Like a lot of beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #53 May 20, 2011 Quote Let's take a more reasonable analogy. Take two guys who have never flown any camera before and have no training on it. First guy wants to do 4-way video. He talks to a local video flyer who gives him some pointers and helps him set up his helmet. He says "jump with that team over there; they're good and they will give you something stable to film." He prepares for the jump, makes a plan and intends to follow it. Second guy wants to improve his sitfly. He's just learning sitflying, and he decides to add a camera but not change any other part of his skydive. He's just going to "turn it on and forget about it." In that case, yes, the second jumper is the more dangerous of the two - because he is doing something that he is unprepared for. In fact he has made the decision that he will NOT be prepared for it. In other words... jumper 2 is a moron who did no homework and jumper 1 got some quick education. It's still just another analogy. There's no reason why jumper 2 can't be as safe as jumper 1. It's all about the individual and the steps they take to educate themselves in becoming a more aware jumper. Taken the right steps, camera flier 2 can be just as safe as flier 1 and vice versa.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morne 0 #54 May 20, 2011 QuoteQuote Let's take a more reasonable analogy. Take two guys who have never flown any camera before and have no training on it. First guy wants to do 4-way video. He talks to a local video flyer who gives him some pointers and helps him set up his helmet. He says "jump with that team over there; they're good and they will give you something stable to film." He prepares for the jump, makes a plan and intends to follow it. Second guy wants to improve his sitfly. He's just learning sitflying, and he decides to add a camera but not change any other part of his skydive. He's just going to "turn it on and forget about it." In that case, yes, the second jumper is the more dangerous of the two - because he is doing something that he is unprepared for. In fact he has made the decision that he will NOT be prepared for it. In other words... jumper 2 is a moron who did no homework and jumper 1 got some quick education. It's still just another analogy. There's no reason why jumper 2 can't be as safe as jumper 1. It's all about the individual and the steps they take to educate themselves in becoming a more aware jumper. Taken the right steps, camera flier 2 can be just as safe as flier 1 and vice versa. Personally I would feel more comfortable doing what jumper 2 does - with the added briefings etc for camera. I would just want to jump straight into 4 way filming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #55 May 20, 2011 Lots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #56 May 21, 2011 QuoteQuote First guy wants to do 4-way video. He talks to a local video flyer who gives him some pointers and helps him set up his helmet. He says "jump with that team over there; they're good and they will give you something stable to film." He prepares for the jump, makes a plan and intends to follow it. Second guy wants to improve his sitfly. He's just learning sitflying, and he decides to add a camera but not change any other part of his skydive. He's just going to "turn it on and forget about it." So again, a fair comparison: Two jumpers with exactly the same experience One, the POVer, does it just to document his jump. The other, a camera flyer, jumps with an inherent obligation to get good footage. Both take the addition of the camera very seriously. Both seek out advice and instruction. Both prepare accordingly. The POVer has a higher potential to hurt himself or others? You can honestly, without assuming there are personality differences in the two, allege that? Yes, assuming that he's not jumping by himself (in which case the camera isn't going to see anything useful or help). The distraction from a camera means you don't fly as well. Not flying as well means the new sit flyer is more likely to cork from a bad dock or something else which can injure any one above him. The camera flyer already familiar with his chosen body position and not trying to touch the people he's filming isn't going to have the same problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #57 May 21, 2011 >Taken the right steps, camera flier 2 can be just as safe as flier 1 and vice versa. Agreed. For guy #2, take away the "learning to sitfly" part and add in training for camera flying and he could be just as safe. But as I've said before, the statement "I'll just turn it on and forget it" while concentrating on something else IS dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #58 May 22, 2011 QuoteLots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael bears repeating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #59 May 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteLots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael bears repeating. +1 And.... I'd like to stress that learning to be a camera flyer should include many training jumps before you ever buy a camera. - learning to fly your camera wings w/no cameras - learning to use your ringsight (just the sight w/no camera) - learning to fly camera slots. Again, w/out a camera. -etc....Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #60 May 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Lots of guys were on my back for wanting to do video when I had about 130ish jumps. On an experienced guy's advice I made an additional 60 or so training jumps learning how to fly a video slot off the cessna before I even bought a camera or helmet. 2 years ago (250ish jumps) I shot a whole lot of bad video with newbie jumpers while at Deland & Z-Hills. Again, part of training. Do a jump, show it to the pro video guys, try to incorporate their advice, rinse & repeat. Now with a little more experience I can't imagine trying to do camera with 50 or 150 jumps! Take it slow and enjoy yourself - you don't need a camera to enjoy the challenges the sport brings. -Michael bears repeating. +1 And.... I'd like to stress that learning to be a camera flyer should include many training jumps before you ever buy a camera. - learning to fly your camera wings w/no cameras - learning to use your ringsight (just the sight w/no camera) - learning to fly camera slots. Again, w/out a camera. -etc.... And yet the latest 200jump wannabe cameraflyer who came to me for advice went on the next load to film a 4way, on his first ever jump with camera, and first ever jump with camera wings, and without a cutaway on his helmet. [place bangs-head-against-wall-smiley here] "The cutaway comes later, no I don't want to do a wings jump without camera, I want to jump my camera NOW" Then don't ask for advice ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xtheowl 0 #61 May 23, 2011 Hey I found some of my old 35mm pics! Kinda grainy, but oh well... http://i.imgur.com/KVcDK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BfE8b.jpg http://i.imgur.com/uLVl6.jpg I have some other nice under canopy shots, but I'll have to dig them up... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
