"Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence "

[normiss 806]

Basing an opinion on FB traffic can be very biased.VERY biased of me to make comments on Ranch traffic or business.

I have not seen ANY change in business at Skydive City, but I'm there regularly, talk to friends and staff that are there MUCH more so than almost any other DZ to comment on.

That was really my only misunderstanding of your post - that people were not going to Zhizzie when in fact they were, and are.

I wish nothing bad on either DZ. Z-hills is my home DZ and I've never been to The Ranch, I don't know nor have ever met BR that I know of.
I do spend most of my time at Zhizzie or Deland so I clearly have a personal interest in both. I have friends at both and also work part time at both DZ's.

I have based my opinions on the results of the legal proceedings.
Nothing more nor less. BR has won none so that tells me a lot.

We all need to jump more at any and every DZ we would care to.
Hopefully we will be met with professional, friendly, welcoming people wherever that might be.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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or the people choosing not to go are such a small number that it makes no difference.

Bingo, that is usually the case in situations like this. That is why I don't usually worry about telling someone who is being an ass to not come to my boogie. Most people have an over inflated view of their influence on other people.

[jrsample 0]

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I guess that I must have such poor writing skills that I have been misunderstood by more than one person throughout the length of this thread. The message is clear then.

Daniel, The thing that is clear is that none of us really know what has been going on to finally cause the dismissal of FFE as aircraft provider, why FFE is suing so many players, why FFE tried to stop the city from extending the lease for SDC, why FFE is trying to open two new DZs at Deland and Z-Hills.

What is clear though is that FFE's Ranch affiliation caused the Ranch to publish inflammatory remarks about the situation such as (loosely quoted) "Ranch jumpers won't be going to SDC for loyalty reasons". Is that an effort to get sympathy from the jumping public for their "cause"? It rather seems divisive and self serving to this jumper.

JR

[normiss 806]

I found it overly clear why FFE was 'dismissed'.
They pulled their aircraft out of Skydive City for other events leaving Skydive City without ANY lift capacity without any notice on multiple occasions AND raised their rates without any advance notice.
More than sufficient reason for dismissal to me.
Why are they suing everyone they can? Cause they're pissed about the first issue.

[Krip 2]

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I found it overly clear why FFE was 'dismissed'.
They pulled their aircraft out of Skydive City for other events leaving Skydive City without ANY lift capacity without any notice on multiple occasions AND raised their rates without any advance notice.
More than sufficient reason for dismissal to me.
Why are they suing everyone they can? Cause they're pissed about the first issue.

Hi Normiss

Some folks just can't let it go, even going to the extreme of hireing a lawyer at a hourly rate. Knowing that the peeps he's sueing will also have to waste their $$$$ on their own lawyers to defend themselves.

We watched a mcnasty at a DZ in Wa State devote 10+ yr's of his life trying to get even with the DZ. FAA on speed dial, videoing all T/O and landings, Putting the TV news in contact with a old man that had lost his son, Flying his own airplane over the DZ during jump run etc etc.

After the DZ incured significant $$$ legal bills they finally cut their losses & found another airport 60 miles away and built a bigger and better operation (IMO).

Mcnasty devoted 10+ yr's of his life 24/7 just to get even Did he win He wasted 10 yr's for what? Win lose.

Reminds me of a nasty divorce with kids involved. The kids lose and one party will get their jollies getting even until the kids can move out on their own.

One Jump Wonder

[SRI85 0]

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I found it overly clear why FFE was 'dismissed'.
They pulled their aircraft out of Skydive City for other events leaving Skydive City without ANY lift capacity without any notice on multiple occasions AND raised their rates without any advance notice.
More than sufficient reason for dismissal to me.
Why are they suing everyone they can? Cause they're pissed about the first issue.

i thought they were suing for the fuel farm and the hanger that they paid for to keep SDC in compliance .

[normiss 806]

Maybe they were.
But given that it is leased property, those belong to the city of Zephyrhills.
Can't sue for access to what you don't own.
A fuel farm and a hangar have nothing to do with "compliance" for that matter.

[davelepka 4]

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But given that it is leased property, those belong to the city of Zephyrhills.
Can't sue for access to what you don't own

If they are indeed city property, then there would be no need for any court involvement. Before the city would allow the matter to go to court, they would smiply instruct the police (city employees) as to who is permitted on, and control of, the property, thus empowering the police to arrest anyone else for trespassing.

Just like when a private property owner calls the police to report trespassing, the property owner is the one who determines who is, or is not, tresspassing. In the case of city property, the city legal department would review the lease, and make that call.

Like I said earlier, if you hold a valid lease on a property, you don't need to sue anyone for tresspassing, you call the cops have them arrested on the spot.

[normiss 806]

City has nothing to say with the legal case being pursued. The city does not "allow" civil cases in any manner. That's a court matter. You can sue for anything you know.

The cops were called. Skydive City was kind enough to allow FFE access to remove their belongings. Much like a couple splitting up with common property. Take your shit and leave.

[tkhayes 348]

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i thought they were suing for the fuel farm and the hanger that they paid for to keep SDC in compliance .

In my earlier posts I clarified this

Freefall Express is NOT suing Skydive City or any of the partners, Bill Richards is.

[freefalle 0]

continues to get interesting.... this article ran in todays News Journal


DELAND -- The city will pay for mediation between Skydive DeLand and a second sky-diving company to work out an agreement that would ensure safety at the municipal airport.

City commissioners first learned about Joseph Richards' plans in October to open a competing sky-diving business at the airport where Skydive DeLand has operated solo for nearly 30 years. Subleasing the privately owned hangar from Daytona Airport Hangars requires the commission's approval because the property is owned by the city.

While the city can't legally deny multiple sky-diving businesses from operating at the federally funded airport, the sublease has been hovering in limbo since it was proposed because commissioners asked the two companies to work out their own coordinated procedures. Richards submitted a proposal, but the companies -- which have a strained relationship -- haven't yet worked out a plan with city staff.

Commissioners voted unanimously Monday night to have them attend a professionally mediated session or series, along with city staff and the hangar owner. The city will pay for the mediation, which also will include Commissioner Charles Paiva, a former pilot, who will provide input to represent the aviation community and commission.

"It's an interesting challenge," said Paiva, also a tandem sky-diving enthusiast, on Tuesday. "The new one would be at the beginning of one runway and Skydive DeLand would be at the end of the other runway. That's the stuff I'm trying to understand visually," and how they might work together with other aviators.

It is unknown how much the mediation will cost and will depend on whom the city chooses to work with, said City Manager Michael Pleus.

Officials hope an agreement can be worked out in time for a commission meeting Feb. 7.

The agreement is expected to address takeoff and landing operations, use of the traffic pattern, air communications, and communications and procedures when dropping jumpers. Other issues to be worked out include ground operations to pick up sky divers.

Hal Spence, an attorney representing Skydive DeLand, said the company wants to see the issues resolved and is "deeply concerned about the safety aspects as well."

"I think this would really be beneficial and we're ready to do that," he said about the mediation.

Richards, a partner in sky-diving company Blue Sky Entertainment, did not attend the meeting and could not be reached Tuesday.

But Gus Spreng, owner of Daytona Airport Hangars, said safety is a major concern and he expects that if a solution were reached in the next four weeks, he and Richards would "be fully compliant."

There are only two other airports with multiple sky-diving operations in the country and this is the first time city leaders have explored the idea of having two at the DeLand facility. As long as local procedures and flights are safe, the Federal Aviation Administration allows multiple sky-diving companies to fly out of the same airport, just as it does for various flight schools and airlines.

The FAA will be invited to the mediation dates, though city Public Services Director and Engineer Keith Riger said the agency is not as concerned about the protocol as much as it is about keeping the airport open for all users.

Commissioner Leigh Matusick said the procedures should be generally written to facilitate any number of sky-diving businesses that might want to open at the airport.

"I don't want it so narrowly written so that it's only those two because I do believe in public enterprise people coming out there with other businesses," she said.

[Andy9o8 2]

I heard they accepted the invitation with a dead fish wrapped in a newspaper.
Just a rumor.

[turtlespeed 221]

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or the people choosing not to go are such a small number that it makes no difference.

Bingo, that is usually the case in situations like this. That is why I don't usually worry about telling someone who is being an ass to not come to my boogie. Most people have an over inflated view of their influence on other people.

But - you keep inviting ME back?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ozzy13 0]

"No documentation of a contract pretty much means there is no contract since no one really knows what the terms were. Where there provisions for rate hikes??? No one knows"

Your words and as you say you know whats going on. Well I call bullshit when I see it. You are stating that SDC and TK were just paying billy for 13 years without knowing why and how much. SDC and TK are running a business and if you think they had no Idea on what the deal was your are just plan stupid. Again I call bullshit when I see. WHO ARE YOU KIDDING

Disclaimer: I do work for the Ranch. For Joe and love it. He is easy to work for.I have NOidea of any details. As far as this thread I read for entertainment purposes only. Zhills is a nice place. I have been there a couple times. I just choose not to go till this mess is over.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[Ron 10]

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Well I call bullshit when I see it.

Then you should be callin bullshit on your boss.

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You are stating that SDC and TK were just paying billy for 13 years without knowing why and how much

Nope, please re read and try again. I said that without a written contract there was no way to know if there:
1. Was an exclusive use provision.
2. If there was a provision for raising the rate.

Read those two points three of four times and then try to answer how , without anything in writting, you can prove what was agreed on 13+ years ago.

Also remember that Billy had taken his planes from Zhills several times and therefore would have violated any contract.

And without a process to raise the rates.... Each new rate hike was a new verbal 'contract'

Also realize that your side has had it's ass handed to it in court.

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Disclaimer: I do work for the Ranch. For Joe and love it.

Great... I don't work for anyone involved so we know your opinion is already jaded.

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I just choose not to go till this mess is over.

Your loss, enjoy the cold

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ozzy13 0]

Boarding season is in. Let it snow let it snow... Oh and I enjoyed the warm weather too.
http://www.youtube.com/user/NYJerry13?feature=mhum#p/u/0/qR8vuqhL7LM
edited to add
"your opinion is already jaded."

Well I love my job and work place. So if that makes me jaded then so be it. As stated before I dont have any info on this matter nor care. Just find this thread amusing in its actuation's and lack of facts. (hear say) The name calling is funny too I just choose not to go to zhills in support to the people that are good to me and my boss JOE R. is very good to me. Its call loyalty. Good luck to all parties involved.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[normiss 806]

Nice to see you had a good time, sorry you had to return to the cold.
It's still nice here in Florida.

I had heard Sebastian was attracting a lot of freefliers, what happened to that?

[ozzy13 0]

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Nice to see you had a good time, sorry you had to return to the cold.
It's still nice here in Florida.

I had heard Sebastian was attracting a lot of freefliers, what happened to that?

That's what happens when you shoot TV all the time.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[Ron 10]

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As stated before I dont have any info on this matter nor care.

Well you claim to not care, but your posting says you do care.

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Just find this thread amusing in its actuation's and lack of facts. (hear say)

I have facts from several different sources.

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The name calling is funny too

Please show one example of me calling someone a name.

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Good luck to all parties involved.

No one has wished anyone from the Ranch otherwise.

Enjoy your boarding... I may be doing that for the first time this year myself.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jrsample 0]

Joe and Billy are two completely different kinds of people.

Joe can be the voice of reason and civility. Billy on the other hand is an egomaniac.

Have you ever had Billy berate you? I have seen him abuse, belittle, insult, literally scream at people who he either disagreed with or he just felt like abusing. He makes people feel small for the sake of his own ego. He is smart but he is very very difficult to deal with if things do not go exactly as he wants them to. Sure, he may be the life of the party but he will rip your lungs out at the drop of a hat.

Don't forget that Billy has always owned 30something percent of SDC and when he needed rates to go up he had some major say. Seems to me that the other shareholders and the board of directors finally had their say.

JR

[captain1976 0]

I have seen him abuse, belittle, insult, literally scream at people who he either disagreed with or he just felt like abusing. He makes people feel small for the sake of his own ego.
JR

[danielcroft 2]

Nice video Jerry, I'm bummed that we didn't do a boogie trip this year. Last new year's eve I was jumping into Skydive City, was the first one down (to the landing area!) after midnight which was fun.

I'm proud to be a Ranch hand and appreciate Billy for letting me jump into his back yard (literally, the DZ is his yard) every weekend. I don't think this really has anything to do with us regular sky jumping folk (although, being an employee is a little different). Having said that, there was so little difference between choosing Skydive City over Sebastian last time we did the trip that I think I'd probably go to Sebastian next time even if this issue was resolved. The ocean views look pretty amazing. It'd be hard dragging some of my friends over there who've been going to Skydive City for years because of all their friends but I think change is good.

This isn't meant to be a negative comment about Skydive City but I can't help feel at least a little loyalty to Billy and the Ranch, the two are hard to separate. I imagine it's the same for people jumping at Skydive City, I don't fault anyone for that. All I wanted to point out to people was that these things are never black and white.

[normiss 806]

Nicely put.

Blues.

[Krip 2]

Hi FF

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Officials hope an agreement can be worked out in time for a commission meeting Feb. 7.

Thanks for the heads up the soap opera continues

Feb 7Did the officals leave out the year on purpose. Anyone want to start a poll about how long it will take to reach a agreement other I'll start with never or the lawyer option. 1 month sounds very optomistic.

OTOH SDC and Z-hills worked out of the same airport etc and it basically worked no one died, maybe some go arounds due to conflicts on jump run.

Wasn't there very much, it was pre TK any locals know how much of a conflict it caused? Wasn't BR part of SDC rom the begining ?

One Jump Wonder

[kimemerson 7]

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Someone with that personality doesn't give a shit about safety considerations, they only know what they want; Like a dog who wants a bone.

I'm no shrink as I doubt most of the critics of Billy's psychological makeup are, but as a 20+ year Ranch member, I can say that the above description could be taken as generally accepted knowledge. It isn't new to anyone who knows Billy. But I have to defend him against this comment, that someone like Billy "...doesn't give a shit about safety..." This statement is a broad and indefensible argument, and further, shows that the speaker doesn't actually know Billy. He is a certifiable nut case; only an idiot or a fool would attempt to describe him otherwise. And he takes a certain libertarian perspective on personal behavior and responsibility, but he is absolutely passionate about safety and the safe operations and actions of skydivers, pilots and anyone else associated with the sport. Say what you will about his business practices, his friendship cementing practices, his social graces. But he has shown enough regard for safety in too many ways to allow the comment that he doesn't care to pass without comment.