Safety notes from the WFFC

[billvon 3,006]

>Still, I fail to see how me posting something on an internet
> message, probably describing it inadequately as well, suddenly
> makes my rig unflyable until a rigger asses my concern.

It doesn't, it just changes your awareness. Imagine if your rigger told you "your reserve might have a molar strap still on it; I can't find mine!" At that point, your rig hasn't changed one bit; his words did not make it unsafe. But you might choose to check it out anyway. Up to you.

[Elisha 1]

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Elisha,

I am sure that if you were unconcerned you wouldn't have posted it hereBut since you have, we might as well give you our opinion. Fair enough? You are right, without having seen it, we cannot tell whether your rig is airworthy or not. But wrong cable lenghts have caused problems more than once in the past. So I still recommend to ask a rigger to look at it. Just a friendly advise, no more no less
JM

And thank you Frenchy....

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During that time I never had a riser fall off, but did have the cables slip out of the housing after landing.

Yes, this has happened (do you mean riser and not housing though? When you say housing, this sounds like the fabric tub in which it is routed to the cutaway handle), but usually still has an inch or so in after landing. I know I have checked it in flight and it is probably 2 inches or so in the riser while the other is around 4.

[sundevil777 102]

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I've seen it come out before after landing, although it is still a good two inches or so through the white loop

I would not be comfortable with only 2 inches left after a jump.

Fix it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Scrumpot 1]

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but usually still has an inch or so in after landing.

Only 1 inch or so, IS INSUFFICIENT. There, now you've had yet another "disinterested party" chime in. You MAY be describing it entirely wrong, granted. But what's the harm in having a RIGGER take a look at it before you make your very next jump?

Have it checked out.
Please. ...Pretty please. <---How's that?
Even if your concerns turn out completely unfounded, that is just fine. But to not completely verify that now (and before jumping it again) would be your own negligence. Most DZ's (even small Cesna one's) have SOMEBODY who is a RIGGER available, right there on site. It should cause you NO INCONVENIENCE to get this checked out before your very next jump! Do it. Your safety and your gear is nothing to just "shrug off" if you are not SURE.

Just another country heard from. FWIW.
Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[piisfish 140]

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Wait until she reads this... You're in trouble my friend!

She wasn't the only one I saw
Oh yeah I also saw someone landing in a tree and having his canopy retrieved by Omar and Greg

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Frenchy68 0]

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Wait until she reads this... You're in trouble my friend!

She wasn't the only one I saw
Oh yeah I also saw someone landing in a tree and having his canopy retrieved by Omar and Greg

They're the resident gardeners. That's what they get paid to do. What's the big deal? Don't you have a tandem to jump anyway?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Elisha 1]

How log does it take the average (Rigger) to replace a cutaway handle? Thanks.

[ripcord4 0]

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but usually still has an inch or so in after landing.

Only 1 inch or so, IS INSUFFICIENT. There, now you've had yet another "disinterested party" chime in. You MAY be describing it entirely wrong, granted. But what's the harm in having a RIGGER take a look at it before you make your very next jump?

Have it checked out.
Please. ...Pretty please. <---How's that?
Even if your concerns turn out completely unfounded, that is just fine. But to not completely verify that now (and before jumping it again) would be your own negligence. Most DZ's (even small Cesna one's) have SOMEBODY who is a RIGGER available, right there on site. It should cause you NO INCONVENIENCE to get this checked out before your very next jump! Do it. Your safety and your gear is nothing to just "shrug off" if you are not SURE.

Just another country heard from. FWIW.
Blue Skies,
-Grant

Here's another party chiming in: What do you guys think IS sufficient length through the loop for the cutaway cables?

[billvon 3,006]

>How log does it take the average (Rigger) to replace a cutaway
>handle? Thanks.

If he has one the right size? 15 seconds. If he has to cut it and treat the ends? A few minutes.

[FrenchyDiver 0]

And the cost?

In my case: Mirage G3, cutaway handle $35.00 (from mfg website) plus whatever the rigger charges.

Total: cheap fix, if needed

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[airtwardo 7]

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>How log does it take the average (Rigger) to replace a cutaway
>handle? Thanks.

If he has one the right size? 15 seconds. If he has to cut it and treat the ends? A few minutes.

***

Slightly off topic...but~

Reading this and some other threads has me wondering...

Does anyone else besides me have spares for this stuff?


When I order a rig, I also get an extra pilot chute
& freebag, at least one each, Reserve RC and
Cut Away handle.

Odds are you'll eventually need them, and they're never gonna be cheaper than when you buy the rig.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 3,006]

>Does anyone else besides me have spares for this stuff?

We've been building up stock in ripcords, reserve PC's and freebags, risers, cutaway handles etc. They come in handy both for us and for Amy's customers. Even before she became a rigger we had a rigging box that contained bits and pieces of gear that could often be reused.

[airtwardo 7]

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>Does anyone else besides me have spares for this stuff?

We've been building up stock in ripcords, reserve PC's and freebags, risers, cutaway handles etc. They come in handy both for us and for Amy's customers. Even before she became a rigger we had a rigging box that contained bits and pieces of gear that could often be reused.

***

That only make sense, but I mean as an individual jumper.../ non rigger.

I have a spare 'just about everything' in my gear bag...Especially if I'm traveling.

I see in a few threads where 'so & so' was shut down from jumping for a month waiting delivery on a replacement freebag....

Curious how many people would be effected like that.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[FrenchyDiver 0]

I was wondering exactly the same thing, as I am about to order a spare kit.
So it would come handy and not expensive at all (about $350)

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Curious how many people would be effected like that.

Way to many, if not most IMO

OK let's find out, here's a
poll


(edited to add link)

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[Elisha 1]

Thanks!

[Deuce 1]

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>Which is the reason I would jump at any boogie in Eloy or that Burke is running the show for the AZ fleet.
>It's boogies like WFFC where their aren't any consequences if you do something stupid . . .

Bryan Burke was running things for the AZ fleet at Rantoul.

That's the planes, right? That's a different discussion.

At Eloy, Burke can kick you off the DZ. How many WFFC participants were banned from jumping?

[BIGUN 1,323]

6. Green light does not mean go. It means you have permission to exit the aircraft, but it is your responsibility to check the spot and ensure clear airspace under and around the aircraft.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[peek 21]

PJ:
This was a big problem last year, due mostly to the fact that there was one tiny windsock out in the main landing area.

Peek:
This is the second posting I have seen you make about the "tiny" wind sock situation at the WFFC.

When we first had the Convention at Rantoul I made the TWO (not one) windsocks that are in the main landing area. I did this because I was not sure whether the airport windsock would be suitable for
skydiving and I did not know if there was a tetrahedron.

I also thought that getting a windsock for skydiving might be overlooked by Staff due to all of the other work required in changing airports for the Convention.

Since I have done that each year I suppose everyone has made the assumption that the WFFC has done that and not me personally.

The windsocks I bring are "small" compared to an airport windsock which does not need to inflate at as low a wind speed as does an airport windsock, but they are not exactly "tiny".

I can see them easily from 3000 feet. I have also determined that yellow is the most easily seen color, and that is why I changed the orientation of the red/yellow windsock so that the yellow is toward the sky. (The pretty red/yellow deal is visible from the ground.)

There are something like 15 flags along International Blvd., and too many windblades to count.

I use them ALL, and suggest that everyone take into consideration all available wind indicators when skydiving anywhere.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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Solved in places like Lapalisse or Vichy...
Ground staff have a huge red arrow they can orientate. Arrow gives the landing direction. For everyone...

"Solved" eh? Actually, at the WFFC this year, they had a huge yellow arrow for just that purpose. Did it help? Probably. But I saw many, many people landing in a direction directly opposite the arrow. It's a good idea, but it only works if people follow it.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[councilman24 37]

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Solved in places like Lapalisse or Vichy...
Ground staff have a huge red arrow they can orientate. Arrow gives the landing direction. For everyone...

"Solved" eh? Actually, at the WFFC this year, they had a huge yellow arrow for just that purpose. Did it help? Probably. But I saw many, many people landing in a direction directly opposite the arrow. It's a good idea, but it only works if people follow it.

At some dropzones the "arrow" points in the direction the wind is blowing. Thus you do land opposite the arrow. At something like the WFFC they shouldn't be using something that is not standardized across the sport. Wind sock and tetrahedrons are.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[nicknitro71 0]

You forgot to mention that one AZ Otter dumped a load on TOP of the climbing Carvair!

A friend of mine was on the load sitflying. He looked down and was right above the sucker. He got on his belly and tracked away so not to hit the bird.

Yes it is the responsibility of the jumper to look before jumping BUT...at times it's not easy to spot other aircrafts and it's nearly impossible to do so out of a tailgate if the plane is coming from the front.

Both aricrafts were from the convention so a little talk would have prevented a near disaster.

As for the landings. The winds were mild for the most part. After fews days they built a big carton-box arrow to show jumpers the direction to land (as stated SEVERAL times by the manifest) despite the winds. Did it help? To some extent...I landed in the direction of the arrow seeing two jumpers coming at me from the opposite direction, one a swooper, the other one a not-so-experienced jumper who panicked and crash landed on his butt (just few grass stains).

What about exit separation? People just rushed out of the door between groups because they were afraid to land out! Every time you gave the RIGHT amount of separation, jumpers started bitching to go, fucking awesome.

An example: the DC3 load. We were the second group out after a 8 way speed star. 8 way means a mim of 6 sec of separation, no shit. The DC3 does not fly that fast on jump run. Well after four secs the whole load started to bitch. You gotta love that! Then people were bitching because groups were on top of each other!

Did I also mention the lack of seat belts for about 50% of the jumpers on the DC3? NOICE!

At times the WFFC felt like a skydiving hell week: if you survive it, you are able to jump anywhere!

Despite all this and more, just two went in and both incidences were not due to the lack of general-common-sense/WFFC-organization.

I still had fun, but I'm sick in the head...and I also managed to fuck up with a WS jump off a high speed CASA pass...not the smartest thing to do...

Memento Audere Semper

903

[ltdiver 3]

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and I also managed to fuck up with a WS jump off a high speed CASA pass...not the smartest thing to do.

Yeah, I heard about that. Your group still have their arms attached where they should be?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Guest]

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Despite all this and more, just two went in
....

I'm rarely speechless. It seems that "just two" can be a good thing or a bad thing. Glad you are safe and had a good time, but though interested, I'll take a pass on WFFC for a while.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[RogerRamjet 0]

Elisha,

What was the outcome of having your cutaway cables checked out?

Please tell us you took your rig to a rigger who either verified it as ok or made the modification to make it ok....

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[Elisha 1]

No final resolution yet.

I plan to go to Byron this weekend (first time - pre boogie visit) and I'll have a rigger look at it. I'm thinking that I'll have the rigger change the cable anyways, even if it is "borderline" or ok just for peace of mind.

At the DZ closest to me (the last time I jumped), the only rigger is never there. This AFF I, who says he has taken the rigger training, but not the test yet, thinks (in his admitted semi-professional opinion) that it is ok.