Finishing up my AFF question

[Julaynemaries 0]

Hey all,
I am just kinda curious about a few things.....My last jump was a level 6. I was to do 2 barrel rolls and a back flip. Did the rolls no backflip although I tried, I ended up head down and spinning. I think it was due to not allowing myself time to get back into a comfortable arch.
The thing is, now im having to do over my 6 (at the same time as doing tracking as to combine 6 & 7)

Ok Im getting to wordy, ANYWAYS any tips? Also, my AFF isnt supposed to be perfect right? I am being safe and ultimatly doing everything I should. This last jump really kinda pissed me off (i think it was the way the instructor spoke to me) its expensive and I want to get on with my jumping.....I dont want to have someone telling me i failed...because I dont think I did, I just didnt do a backflip...I am just rubbed the wrong way and I fear it will affect my next jump.....

[Julaynemaries 0]

I think my real question is any tips on how not to be so hard on YOURSELF?

[JohnMitchell 16]

2 things-

How did you feel about the level of instruction on how to do a backflip? A properly prepared student does better (duh) than one who got minimal instruction on how to do the tasks.

Also, I tend to grade pretty easily on backflips for students. My main concern is that they can attempt the maneuver and then recover stability. Rarely do I flunk someone for a poor backloop.

With that said, it sounds like they are not making you repeat the jump, just demonstrate the task on your level 7. Sounds super fair to me. They're not trying to shake more money out of you. They're just trying to verify your skills. So, suck it up, rehearse the dive, mentally prepare yourself, and go up and show 'em how it's done.

You said you thought the instructor lacked tact? They vary. Maybe set your sights on being one someday yourself.

[NWFlyer 2]

Sounds like you may have had some communication barriers with that particular instructor, so one thing to consider would be asking to work with someone different. If you've worked with an instructor in the past that you particularly clicked with maybe see if you can do your next jump with that person. That might help you develop a plan to work on the things that were difficult and keep moving forward.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[megamalfunction 1]

Go take a static line course ... if you pull ... you PASS! (walking away from the jump may be another requirement depending on the DZ)

[davelepka 4]

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its expensive and I want to get on with my jumping.....I dont want to have someone telling me i failed...because I dont think I did, I just didnt do a backflip...I am just rubbed the wrong way and I fear it will affect my next jump.....

First off, stop considering the price. The cost of the program if you have no repeat jumps is the 'best case scenario' for the 'best student in the world'. The real cost of completing the program is different for each person, and the cost of making you a safe skydiver is whatever it costs. There's no way to save money, make it cheaper, or for it to cost too much. It is what it is.

Besides, the cost of student jumps pales in comparison to buying gear and paying for fun jumps every weekend.

About the 'failure', some instructors don't use a pass/fail criteria because they don't like the word fail, so they use an advance/repeat criteria jsut to be nice.

In the end, you didn't do what the instructor wanted you to do, and their judgement was that you were not ready to move on to the next level. Do you feel like you achieved everything you should have on the jump? Honestly?

A big part of these manuvers is demonstrating the departure from stable freefall into a manuver, and the controlled return to stabel freefall. If you ended up spinning on your head, you may have not met that criteria. Sure you didn't do the back loop, but the real problem might have been inability to make a controlled return to stable freefall.

Overall, you need to be able to get over this, and move forward. Skydiving in general is a world of very high hopes in the plane, and a somewhat lower level of actual performance after exit. If you cannot roll with those punches, you're going to have a very frustrating time to learn the finer points of jumping after you're licensed, and when you start to jump with others. (Remember that jumping with instructors doesn't qualify as jumping with 'others'. They are highly trained and skilled, and most jumpers don't perform at that level).

In terms of back loops, try looking where you want to go. Tuck your knees toward your chest, and look straight up and back as far as you can. Thanks to your neck, your body will follow your head where ever it goes. Throw your head back, the body will follow.

More importantly, whatever happens, return to a solid arch as you complete the manuver, and make a quick and controlled return to stable freefall.

[Julaynemaries 0]

naw im not interested in static line........i can pull, im stable, just got down on myself over this last jump.

I think alot of it was lack of ground school for the manuevers and the clashing of our personalities.....im gonna stick to my guns and rock this AFF out.......

If anything I took away from the jump knowing that i can stablize after disorientating myself with no problem....

[Julaynemaries 0]

I agree with you Dave, I dont think that in the future, I will be so down about it all. This is my 1st time not doing a GREAT jump. Do I think I did a perfect jump? Hell to the no. I wont be doing anything close to perfect for quite some time. I also dont think jumping with my instructor is the same as fun jumping with my friends......money is tight, yes. I know it will only get tighter.
On another note, I do like your tips on the jump. I wasnt breifed much at all, just told push against the wind and pull my knees in, i tried and ended head down, BUT i pulled out, stablized, no manuevers past 7k ft and pulled on 5, stable.........

[Julaynemaries 0]

and by "pulled out" i mean arched and stablized.......that was never an issue.

[guineapiggie101 0]

AFF is tough. Currently, I am going through my AFF courses. It's been an uphill battle and I am stuck on AFF 3. Have had to repeat that jump 10 times (yes TEN TIMES). I know how you feel about beating up on yourself about why you didn;t pass. One of my jumps, I did everything great, but didn;t pull, so no pass.

I know what you mean about expensive. But look at it this way, the instructors are there to keep you safe, and I think every jump counts towards the 25 jumps you need for licensing.

[Klassen 0]

Some days you rock it out, some days you suck! All part of learning. Usually the days you suck are the ones where you make the most progress. Embrace your failure and grow from it!

[Julaynemaries 0]

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Some days you rock it out, some days you suck! All part of learning. Usually the days you suck are the ones where you make the most progress. Embrace your failure and grow from it!

I think just knowing others have the same feelings puts me at ease.

[AndreLB3 0]

A similar thing happened to me. I barely passed AFF3, but the way my instructor spoke to me afterwards in my debrief really discouraged me. I had been so excited because my first 2 jumps went great, and then my AFF3 instructor really brought me down.

It's not really important what he/she said, but ya, I was really bummed and wasn't looking forward to my next jumps at all like i had been before. So i know how an instructor can make you feel.

Bottom line, I tried to forget it as much as i could, and i got back to jumping (didn't hurt i had a different instructor). I put it out of my head and focused on learning and being safe. After my AFF4 went perfect, my AFF3 was the last thing I was thinking about. I ended up passing every level first time. Trust me, as discouraged as you are now, once you get that first solo in after your AFF, it will all have been worth it.

Some instructors have been doing this a long time, and they are over the sugar-coating phase when they talk to their students. He is trying to make sure you don't kill yourself, that's all. And, as stated above, sounds like you are getting an opportunity to pass 6 and 7 in one jump, which is awesome!

Just have fun, be safe

Blue,
Andrew

[NWFlyer 2]

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Some days you rock it out, some days you suck! All part of learning. Usually the days you suck are the ones where you make the most progress. Embrace your failure and grow from it!

I think just knowing others have the same feelings puts me at ease.

Took me 37 jumps to get my A license. Came close to getting the "uh, maybe skydiving isn't for you" speech a couple of times. Still here, still skydiving, still having fun 6 1/2 years and almost 800 jumps later. You're definitely not the only one.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Julaynemaries 0]

THANK YOU!
It is a bummer, but I can see how sugar coating might get old....but i perfer to be sugar coated :)
(im kidding, kinda)
I am going out this weekend, and the instructor im going to do the jump with knows how I felt about this jump and was very very understandable and supportive as opposed to the guy who "failed me" and never spoke another word to me about it.......kinda a dick move and busted my morale.....all well. In retropect, Im just gonna say he can suck it and im going to move forward.....I have to say for the 1st time thinking about my exit doent have me shaken up.....its all about the backloop. So any further suggestions on how to perform a nice smooth one would be great!

[NWFlyer 2]

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So any further suggestions on how to perform a nice smooth one would be great!

[Caveat: your instructor would be the best person to talk to about technique...]

For me, front loops and back loops were relatively easy because I just remembered what it was like to do a front loop or back loop in the pool when I was a kid - and I did a lot of them back then. Barrel rolls were tougher for me because that wasn't something I ever did when I was just playing as a kid.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Julaynemaries 0]

[

For me, front loops and back loops were relatively easy because I just remembered what it was like to do a front loop or back loop in the pool when I was a kid - and I did a lot of them back then. Barrel rolls were tougher for me because that wasn't something I ever did when I was just playing as a kid.

[hokierower 0]

My last jump was my Lvl 6 and I was majorly sweating the back flips because I have never really been able to do them, even on a trampoline. After talking to my instructors about it and some of the other AFF students I calmed down a little bit. After leaving the plane I was stable, did my COA, then went to do my backflip. I looked up and started to bring my knees to my chest and then slicker than snot I just flipped right over. Getting stable was a little bit more difficult until I got a thumbs down from my AFFI and when I arched I magically stabilized. The second time was even easier. You just gotta remember to keep those hands out when you pull the legs in so that the air flow catches them and because your legs are pulled in, there's no "counterbalance" and you just go right over.

I had a blast on that one but then came in and mucked up my landing. Next time...

[shah269 0]

Yeah it's expensive and it an be a PITA. But as long as you are having safe ladnings enjoy the ride.
Remember smile you are doing what others only dream of are too affraid to try.
So......just close your eyes, relax and push with the arms and bring your knees in.
Once you do it just works.
The problem is doing just one....my instructor had a good laugh when I did three instead of one.
But yeah, relax! It's all good.
No borken bones no cut aways...just relax ok!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[JohnMitchell 16]

Krisanne's pool advice is probably the best. Maybe be a little more aggressive on this next one to insure you go all the way around. Arch hard to recover.

Now, once again, it looks like they're letting you progress, in that you're going on to level 7 only with a backloop thrown in. That's a good deal for you, IMO.

Communications issues? Sure, life is full of them. I try to "read" each student and encourage them, but other instructors maybe not so much. Dissatisfaction with a few of my early instructors was the reason I got into the game myself. You seem pretty smart. The next time you get a poor evaluation from any instructor, make them do their job of explaining where you did poorly and coaching you to do better the next time.

[Zlew 0]

On a related note: for me, the biggest piece of a backloop was the "trying to kick your self in the chest with you knees" concept. The arms don't mater so much.

On an unrelated note- I had a jump this weekend that had backloops as part of the dive (one point was a backloop!) It was so much fun! I haven't done backloops in years.... had a blast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_vBbsIZNw


backloop jumps starts at about 2:30 *edit

[AndreLB3 0]

Also, don't stress too much about getting the flips perfect. Really, the main reason they wants you to do flips in your AFF jumps, is to cause you to become unstable, and then see if you can become stable again.

If you try it and only do 3/4 of a flip, flail around, but arch and get stable right after, the instructor won't really care that you didn't do a full flip.

All i do is throw my chin back hard and tuck my legs at the same time, the flip will just happen by itself. then just arch!

Again, dont worry about pulling a perfect flip, just make sure that whatever happens when you try (something will happen) that you arch and get stable afterwards.

[Divalent 131]

FWIW, when my instructor was telling me about how to do the back flip, another instructor popped his head up and said his technique was way better (in a friendly way, no issues of instructor clashing): extend arms straight out above your head (parallel to each other), bring your knees up in front of you as you simultaneously swing your arms down to your legs (as if you were about to lower them onto the shoulders of someone facing you, with palms down, kind of pressing against the wind). Quoting from my log book: "perfect back flip followed by instant stability". (My first solo I did 3 more; they are fun to do.) But just cause it worked for me doesn't mean it will work for you, so if you think this way might work, run it by your instructor.

(I'll just skip right over the parts of my log book that refer to my landings (among other sections): it's sufficient to note that I perfected the butt slide in AFF )

BTW, level 6 was also the jump for me where I had no discernable exit fear. Like you, I think its the combination of confidence in my ability to get stable regardless of what is happening at the moment coupled with confidence that I could remain altitude aware and deploy my own main. [I liked all my instructors, but I was happy to get to the point where I didn't *have* to jump with them.]

[JohnMitchell 16]

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another instructor popped his head up and said his technique was way better (in a friendly way, no issues of instructor clashing): extend arms straight out above your head (parallel to each other), bring your knees up in front of you as you simultaneously swing your arms down to your legs

Yep, that's the right way to do it. What was the other guy teaching?

[Julaynemaries 0]

hmmmm so I was told keep your hands at the 90 degrees but push down, it didnt feel right. (and I obviously didnt do it right) im curious to hear how my instructor tomorrow tells me, I really like him, he was on my 1st jump with me, and almost every load, i dont know why i didnt stick with him........and he IS the reason I can combine 6 back loop and 7 tracking on my next jump.....Plus he's super weird, and strange is much much betta!