question on my level one AFF

[painter 0]

question for you veteran jumpers. Over the years, I've made about 10 static jumps. Recently did my first aff. Everything was fine, checking things I was supposed to, while freefall etc. He gave me the signal to pull, and I thought he meant to look at the other jump master, and by the time I quickly realized, I could NOT put my hand on the handle... and he pulled for me. He said I touched it, but never actually GRABBED it. I was critisized for this, but, being my first aff, everything was fine they said, except the handle. Does this happen to first timers? Back when I did dummy pulls, on static, I had same problem a couple times. Thank you for a reply.

[popsjumper 2]

Not unusual at all.
Not a good thing, but not unusual for Level 1.

Get it the next time.

Oh...study your hand signals better.


AND focus on altitude awareness. Obviously, you weren't aware of the approaching pull altitude.

Had I been your AFFI, I would have had a good discussion about altitude awareness first, then addressed the other things.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[painter 0]

ok, thanx. you're right, I wasn't being aware of alltitude, because 6000ft, or so, was there in a hurry!

[SlumdogJumper 0]

Your main objective in aff level 1 in just an introduction to freefall and canopy flight. A bit of advice I think helped me a lot was SLOW DOWN!!!
Slow your mind down and take time to do everything you need to do. I had a problem on my first level jump with my practice touches and finding my hackey when time to pull. Then one instructor told me to slow my mind down and make all moves deliberately. That helped out a lot. Jump two should be better since you will be use to. Also practice your diveflow at home before your next jump. If you practice 5 min a day with what you will do in your next jump your mind will remember to do it...

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[tdog 0]

Speaking as an AFF-I who has done many level 1s. Don't worry, go jump again, have fun. Those who have this common problem on level 1 rarely have it on level 2 or their next 10,000 jumps.

[jimmytavino 16]

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ok, thanx. you're right, I wasn't being aware of alltitude, because 6000ft, or so, was there in a hurry!

did you exit @ 13,500??? or 10,500? OR even 9,500???/

6 grand CAN arrive quite quickly if you're getting out at one of those Lower altitudes...

what type of aircraft does your DZ use???

welcome to freefall...


jt

[hookitt 1]

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Not unusual at all.
Not a good thing, but not unusual for Level 1.

Get it the next time.

Oh...study your hand signals better.


AND focus on altitude awareness. Obviously, you weren't aware of the approaching pull altitude.

Had I been your AFFI, I would have had a good discussion about altitude awareness first, then addressed the other things.

Indeed.... I do agree.

In freefall, I would have also encouraged him to pull by attempting to put his hand on the pilot chute handle.

-Give the Pull signal, then if needed
- take wrist and push it toward the handle

If he gets it, he gets it. Even if I force the pull.

Then after we land safely and put away the gear, we have a nice debrief and corrective training.

I tend to do everything I can to get the student to pull and most of the time, it's successful. I've seen a few that don't bother trying They give the pull signal a bunch of times and then just put the student under a canopy.

Painter, your next jump will be easier.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I've seen a few that don't bother trying They give the pull signal a bunch of times and then just put the student under a canopy.

That's pretty lazy. I try to wrestle their hand back to the handle. Funny how they still fight you when you're trying to save their life.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Hi painter, welcome back to skydiving.

When you're in freefall, there ain't nothin' more important than pulling.

Really now, pay attention.

[tdog 0]

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I've seen a few that don't bother trying They give the pull signal a bunch of times and then just put the student under a canopy.

Personal opinion starts here: I find that a student that is not responding to a pull signal gets even more confused when I yank on their hand back to the pilot chute... I have tried it many times and I don't think it ever has worked. Thus, I believe the pull signal and/or hitting their altimeter is the best technique. I rather keep doing that for 5 seconds and hope it "sinks in" than doing it for 2.5 seconds then suddenly switching gears to pulling on their arm... If information overload is already causing them to forget to save their own life, giving them more information in a 5 second window is not going to help... Personal opinion.

Now - if they have started the pull sequence and simply cannot find the PC, then helping them find the PC is well received and I will continue to help them until I am at my absolute lowest comfortable hard deck as most of the time they need just an extra second to find it.

[rehmwa 2]

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Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

slow is slow



calm is smooth, smooth gets you fast

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I've seen a few that don't bother trying They give the pull signal a bunch of times and then just put the student under a canopy.

That's pretty lazy. I try to wrestle their hand back to the handle. Funny how they still fight you when you're trying to save their life.

I've had one guy win that fight. I had to pull for him - but I TRIED hard to get his fingers on that RC before 3999.

I had one lady that really tried to pull but just couldn't grip the handle. I wrapped her fingers around the handle and then I grasped her fist and we pulled together. Strange way to pass Cat A . She did bring the handle back though.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I find that a student that is not responding to a pull signal gets even more confused when I yank on their hand back to the pilot chute... I have tried it many times and I don't think it ever has worked.

Interesting point of view. I'll have to cogitate on that a while. Thanks.

[painter 0]

Thanx everybody, where I ACTUALLY brain farted was the VERY LAST, signal, which was a single finger pointing towards me, and for some dumb ass reason, I thought he meant, look at the other master, or, in other words, was pointing at the other aff-I, and then it donned on me, when he DID actually take my hand, and and put it on my right hip. 60 seconds, went by alot quicker than I thought it would, but THAT freefall ride,..... was enough fun to keep ME comin back.

[hookitt 1]

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I've seen a few that don't bother trying They give the pull signal a bunch of times and then just put the student under a canopy.

Personal opinion starts here: I find that a student that is not responding to a pull signal gets even more confused when I yank on their hand back to the pilot chute... I have tried it many times and I don't think it ever has worked. Thus, I believe the pull signal and/or hitting their altimeter is the best technique.

.

I have great success with it. If they don't get the clue, I give them a highly exaggerated clue, and do whatever I can to get them to pull.

-------
Note: I can only guess that the students at your DZ are still given chest mount altimeters. Get rid of em. Change over to hand mounts. There are many issues that immediately go away.

Chest mounts went away with the "look" portion of Arch "look" reach pull. They're great for other people to see but not so good for a student who just needs to keep his chin up. :)

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[tdog 0]

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Note: I can only guess that the students at your DZ are still given chest mount altimeters. Get rid of em.

Then your guess is 100% wrong.

I was mentioning tap your alti on your WRIST as I find most students know, without being taught, tapping the device means look at it.

People commonly use the tapping the watch handsignal on the street to ask someone they don't even know, "what time is it?" Of course we teach it in the class too, it is in our training videos too, but when the student is stressed out and forgetting everything they learned in the FJC, using a handsignal stolen from common every day society works well...

That being said, if you have had great luck pulling on a student's arm, continue to do so. I tried it a lot because that is what I was taught to do. I still do it if I think it will help, but I find other tricks work better for me...

[tdog 0]

Hey painter,

What are you doing tomorrow? It is the weekend and that means jumpn'! Don't worry about the pull thing on your last jump... It won't be a problem again.

When my dad purchased a boat, the dealer said, "everyone forgets the drainplug once, just so you know, the boat will still float when it is full of water." We promissed him that we would never forget. Two winters later I had to jump into ice cold water to install the drainplug in the middle of the lake. We never forgot it again.

This transfers over to skydiving a bit... But it is a little different in that the first jump is where this stuff is worked out and it never happens again. Some students pull and it never is an issue. Some need one jump to work out the details... So go jump and have fun and stop stressing out about it because next time you will pull... It is one of those things that happens only once.

[Divalent 137]

It struck me (as a recent AFF grad) that the standard pull signal is just too ambiguous. I've read accounts of students not pulling because they interpreted it as meaning something else (like "You da man!" or "look there!"). It doesn't really mimick the pulling action or the effect of pulling, so it ends up being kind of an arbitrary signal. (And in most other contexts on the ground, it generally means "look there".) Yeah, they should remember it from class and the dirt dive, but there's a gajillion other minor details the student is trying to keep in mind, so its not surprising that occassionally someone can forget it.

When jumping in groups, what do you do when you want to point out something to another jumper, without inadvertantly signalling that one or both of you should pull for some reason?

(I'm not sure what would be better. How about a hand that closes into a fist (like grabbing a hackey) and then with a thumb pointing up, do a sharp upward jerk?)

[Muffie 0]

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(I'm not sure what would be better. How about a hand that closes into a fist (like grabbing a hackey) and then with a thumb pointing up, do a sharp upward jerk?)

Where I did AFF the pull signal is a clenched fist. My AFFI and I discussed how the point signal can sometimes be misinterpreted.

[hookitt 1]

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Note: I can only guess that the students at your DZ are still given chest mount altimeters. Get rid of em.

Then your guess is 100% wrong.

.

Ah, I see what you mean. It makes sense how you wrote it and I failed to articulate properly. (read my sigline :)... From main side, I can't reach the altimeter on their left hand so I should have asked about the chest mount rather than guessed. Sorry about that. I bet in real life we do close to the same thing in the air.

The only time I really have to grab and assist in a strong manner is if they simply won't do it by themselves. After reading your post, I went over what Ive done and do in the air, simply by instinct. It's not always cut and dry, but often goes like this.

If I give the signal, I tend to tap the hand/wrist then immediately give the signal making sure they see it. If possible, I even try to slide forward enough so they see my face say as I Say Pull. (that part depends on stability)

I make sure they see it then tap/ grab the wrist, then let it go keeping it shadowed. If they don't start going for it by then, I go for the assist before the hard deck. Usually, they take over and go for the pull themselves and I only have to shadow the hand, and guide it if necessary.

Make enough sense?

I seldom have to to force the pull, but when I do, I REALLY try to make them do it.

It used to suck with rip cords. If you had to force it, you knew they'd probably drop it. I became very good at holding the cable until they took it from me. Luckily I convinced the DZO to switch over to throw outs not too long after I became in instructor. (1997)

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[painter 0]

thanx t-dog, actually it's windier than heck in my state this time of year, and I'm also broke, but when I save the $ for several aff's to do in sucsession, I will definatly return to the dropzone. and will TALK with the aff-I guys about my aff 1 jump. I'm sure I'll pull.

[jmar595 0]

Im not a veteran jumper by any means, just got my A license, bit I did 3 AFF jumps a couple years ago and had a break in between. Came back from the break with the time and means to actually do this now. Anyway, I did the same thing on my first. I forgot to do my practice pulls and couldnt remember what the signal was that he gave me, practice touch. spent most of freefall trying to figure out what he told me to do and just overloaded. Then he gave me a pull signal, I reached back and grabbed the ripcord, they used those there, and hesitated for a moment again trying to recall what the hand signal was that they had given me, and the instructor pulled it the rest of the way for me. All the rest of the jumps have went much better, the more you go, the more it will slow down for you, and you can really concentrate on things you need to do in the jump. Blue skies and good winds!!