RossDagley 0 #1 August 22, 2005 I dont have much detail although I saw the incident - AFF level 1 student on first jump. I understand the skydive and deployment was normal, along with the approach (radio talkdown). Student flared to high (circa 15-20ft) and impacted ground. Student was collected from student landing area by dropzone staff in a van, and returned to the hangar. Ambulance was called and student was taken to hospital with a suspected broken foot/ankle. I dont know how hes doing however. Does anyone have any more information on this, or know the status of the student? (edited upon request) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 August 22, 2005 That happens more often than people think. Hope it's not too serious and he's back on his feet soon."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #3 August 22, 2005 Did they hold the flair to landing or did they let the toggles up after realising they were high? Did they attempt a PLF? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #4 August 22, 2005 From what I remember, he sort of 'panic-released' the toggles once he felt himself dropping (but I'm speculating here). He did flare fully, but arms appeared to be at chest height on landing. There was no attempt at a PLF. On a side note, this was lift #2 of the day - lift #1 had a AFF level 1 cutaway. Not the day for doing AFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #5 August 22, 2005 QuoteStudent was collected from student landing area by dropzone staff in a van... When a person is "collected", that isn't a good sign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #6 August 22, 2005 No He was carried out of the van indoors (by two staff) but seemed 'ok' - I'm pleased it was wasn't more serious. Never nice to see an injury though, and not good PR as on a beautiful Sunday theDZ is jam-packed with Jo Publics and their families coming for tandems Still haven't heard how he is, so hopefully someone knows a bit more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #7 August 22, 2005 Student is fine, has a broken or cracked bone in his ankle, staff acted awesome, guy went to hospital and on the phone, did not care too much about his injury and only seemed to talk about what he did wrong and how to prevent that from happening again. I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. If we talk about what an aff level one did wrong on landing there is a good chance another student or about to be student will read this and het it in his head they know what to do. The instructors need to teach them and not us... Student is fine. Staff acted very good, and i know that if i hurt myself at Hinton that the appropriate measures would be taken care of. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #8 August 22, 2005 Quote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #9 August 22, 2005 i am just against students getting advice from more than their instructor. The instructor will teach them what they need to know. If we give them conflicting advice from their instructor and they are in an emergency situation they do not have time to choose between two different pieces of advice, that is why they have instructors and that is why instructors get ratings. You do not hear people at the dropzone giving advice to students unless they are instructors so we should not do it here. You go to your dz and teach a student how to land and see how their instructor reacts to you. If a student was to read a post on how to land or anything with someone that has as low jump numbers as yourself and then goes and practises it there is a chance you could get them killed as you are only learning yourself. This is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rsmn17 0 #10 August 22, 2005 I'm an aff student and before I started the course I was reading EVERYTHING on the net that I could find. When I went in for my fjc and thought I knew all the answers....i was WRONG!! If I hadn't asked so many questions I probably would've done something to hurt myself. Now I only listen to my JMs. Even TIs that work at the dz I go to won't answer questions that I ask. They say to only ask my JM...so that's what I do from now on. I do think it is ok to read about these incidents on these forums and ask YOUR jm, but NEVER follow anyone's advice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #11 August 22, 2005 Quote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. You're joking... right? If an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing. Before going through AFF myself I read. And read. And read. And watched videos. And watched at the DZ. And asked questions. Here. At the DZ's. And read some more. Everything online needs to be taken into context - anyone who takes it as gospel is a fool. However, it DOES give great food for thought - the forums have prompted so many questions from me to my instructors that I wanted to know more about. I don't think the discussion of flaring too early and its downsides is doing anyone anything other than good. I'm sorry you feel differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #12 August 22, 2005 first thing, dont let me offend you. QuoteIf an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing Who is too tell him when is early though? My mate was told doing aff level 2 and was told not too flare too early so he flared too late and shattered his 2 bones from in the middle of the bone out. Hundreds of fractures cause he did not want to flare to early and break an ankle. Only an instructor should teach a student anything, that includes where the rip cord is. Anything. Anyway, the guy is alright and his instructors will tell him what he did wrong. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #13 August 22, 2005 No you didn't offend me, I just didn't see your point of view (entirely)! - Such is the nature of the interweb. You're totally right - nobody should be reading DZ.com and then chucking themselves out of a plane Equally, I *DO* feel reading is learning - even if it makes the student prompt the instructor (any, not specifically this guy) th ask questions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Witelli 0 #14 August 23, 2005 QuoteQuote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) I totally agree, I tend to flare early and my instructor would yell through the walkie talkie to hold it, and I fought with myself not to release the flare. Now it's always in my head. I think we, as students need to hear these things, but as Bigway said, we need to pass everything by our instructor before attempting to do something. Our instructors know our abilities better than anyone. Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #15 August 23, 2005 Quote Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Witelli 0 #16 August 24, 2005 QuoteQuote Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. Sorry 1010, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I just wanted to stress that you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions to your instructor about anything related to skydiving. If you are curious about something, feel free to ask him/her, DON'T JUST DROP IT. And, absolutely ask yor instructor before trying something you heard elsewhere. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #17 August 24, 2005 Hey no need to be sorry we are in agreement - people should listen to their instructors! Blue skies You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites btucker 0 #18 August 24, 2005 I am on the long path to become an instructor, so I want to learn how to best teach + learn common mistakes (& not to make them myself!). Discussion is good, more discussion is better. If no-one else says it: Talk to your instructor or someone you trust with an instructor rating at your DZ before you act on any advice - esp. advice on the internet! Blue ones, Benno QuoteQuote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. You're joking... right? If an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing. Before going through AFF myself I read. And read. And read. And watched videos. And watched at the DZ. And asked questions. Here. At the DZ's. And read some more. Everything online needs to be taken into context - anyone who takes it as gospel is a fool. However, it DOES give great food for thought - the forums have prompted so many questions from me to my instructors that I wanted to know more about. I don't think the discussion of flaring too early and its downsides is doing anyone anything other than good. I'm sorry you feel differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #19 August 26, 2005 Quotei am just against students getting advice from more than their instructor. The instructor will teach them what they need to know. If we give them conflicting advice from their instructor and they are in an emergency situation they do not have time to choose between two different pieces of advice, that is why they have instructors and that is why instructors get ratings. You do not hear people at the dropzone giving advice to students unless they are instructors so we should not do it here. You go to your dz and teach a student how to land and see how their instructor reacts to you. If a student was to read a post on how to land or anything with someone that has as low jump numbers as yourself and then goes and practises it there is a chance you could get them killed as you are only learning yourself. This is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. Delayed response as I haven't been online here a few days. I don't see how your comments about giving advice with my jump numbers and learning how to skydive from the internet tally at all with what my comment was: Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) All I was saying was that reading about something here might make a student pay a bit more attention or ask his/her instructor something. That comes from my own experience with reading things here that made me wonder what to do in certain circumstances, and taking the questions to my instructors. Which is in accordance with the sticky at the top of this forum about the advice here.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #20 August 27, 2005 QuoteThis is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. I don't think any skydiving student should learn how to skydive on the internet. However, I don't think we need to censor what we say here because some student might be reading it. Otherwise, this would be the blandest, most worthless forum in the history of the internet. There are many other sources of information and misinformation out there. Students have access to those. too. I've seen students download the SIM and study that prior to their first class. Many have watched "Pointbreak." If you are going to learn to skydive, you need to discriminate between good and bad sources of info. If you have questions, ask your instructor. A good one will have answers for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nessvegas 0 #21 August 28, 2005 I am a recent graduate of AFF and someone who is, like many of you, addicted to higher risk activities. While I have many years riding my motorcyle I still take riding courses nearly every year to remain current, practice EMP, and continue my education. While not yet an accomplished skydiver, I am taking every precaution I can and reading evrything I can, to become as safe as possible at the DZ. I do not wish to kill myself, or God forbid, someone else. I read this post after I too flared high on my #10 jump. Why? Stupid reason....I was concentrating too hard on making that unassisted landing with'in 20 meters. Had my mind been where it should have been, i would have comfortably landed beyond my mark and then discussed with my coach where I went wrong in my pattern. Thankfully my instructors had drilled holding an early flare, and while not a comfortable landing, I just came away with that lucky/stupid feeling. Since it seems many students are reading this site daily, how would those in control feel about a student section where the individual student can post mistakes he/she have made in training, why they think they made it and the end result? This is information each of us can take to our instructors and use to perhaps keep us safer while learning. I would not expect it to turn into place for jump/canopy education, but rather a place for learning some "what ifs" that we can take to our DZ instructors for clarification. Also, I wonder how many students are injured because they do not wish to be embarrassed by making a minor mistake, like landing long or in a safe area off the DZ, so they overcompensate and make a bigger mistake? Could this be my last problem? Maybe....won't happen again. Good thoughts to all.... Erik Bad pics (pulled off video), but high flare and end result...... _________________________________________ I married the right one......it just took me 2 times! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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bigway 4 #7 August 22, 2005 Student is fine, has a broken or cracked bone in his ankle, staff acted awesome, guy went to hospital and on the phone, did not care too much about his injury and only seemed to talk about what he did wrong and how to prevent that from happening again. I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. If we talk about what an aff level one did wrong on landing there is a good chance another student or about to be student will read this and het it in his head they know what to do. The instructors need to teach them and not us... Student is fine. Staff acted very good, and i know that if i hurt myself at Hinton that the appropriate measures would be taken care of. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #8 August 22, 2005 Quote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #9 August 22, 2005 i am just against students getting advice from more than their instructor. The instructor will teach them what they need to know. If we give them conflicting advice from their instructor and they are in an emergency situation they do not have time to choose between two different pieces of advice, that is why they have instructors and that is why instructors get ratings. You do not hear people at the dropzone giving advice to students unless they are instructors so we should not do it here. You go to your dz and teach a student how to land and see how their instructor reacts to you. If a student was to read a post on how to land or anything with someone that has as low jump numbers as yourself and then goes and practises it there is a chance you could get them killed as you are only learning yourself. This is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsmn17 0 #10 August 22, 2005 I'm an aff student and before I started the course I was reading EVERYTHING on the net that I could find. When I went in for my fjc and thought I knew all the answers....i was WRONG!! If I hadn't asked so many questions I probably would've done something to hurt myself. Now I only listen to my JMs. Even TIs that work at the dz I go to won't answer questions that I ask. They say to only ask my JM...so that's what I do from now on. I do think it is ok to read about these incidents on these forums and ask YOUR jm, but NEVER follow anyone's advice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #11 August 22, 2005 Quote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. You're joking... right? If an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing. Before going through AFF myself I read. And read. And read. And watched videos. And watched at the DZ. And asked questions. Here. At the DZ's. And read some more. Everything online needs to be taken into context - anyone who takes it as gospel is a fool. However, it DOES give great food for thought - the forums have prompted so many questions from me to my instructors that I wanted to know more about. I don't think the discussion of flaring too early and its downsides is doing anyone anything other than good. I'm sorry you feel differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #12 August 22, 2005 first thing, dont let me offend you. QuoteIf an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing Who is too tell him when is early though? My mate was told doing aff level 2 and was told not too flare too early so he flared too late and shattered his 2 bones from in the middle of the bone out. Hundreds of fractures cause he did not want to flare to early and break an ankle. Only an instructor should teach a student anything, that includes where the rip cord is. Anything. Anyway, the guy is alright and his instructors will tell him what he did wrong. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #13 August 22, 2005 No you didn't offend me, I just didn't see your point of view (entirely)! - Such is the nature of the interweb. You're totally right - nobody should be reading DZ.com and then chucking themselves out of a plane Equally, I *DO* feel reading is learning - even if it makes the student prompt the instructor (any, not specifically this guy) th ask questions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Witelli 0 #14 August 23, 2005 QuoteQuote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) I totally agree, I tend to flare early and my instructor would yell through the walkie talkie to hold it, and I fought with myself not to release the flare. Now it's always in my head. I think we, as students need to hear these things, but as Bigway said, we need to pass everything by our instructor before attempting to do something. Our instructors know our abilities better than anyone. Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #15 August 23, 2005 Quote Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Witelli 0 #16 August 24, 2005 QuoteQuote Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. Sorry 1010, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I just wanted to stress that you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions to your instructor about anything related to skydiving. If you are curious about something, feel free to ask him/her, DON'T JUST DROP IT. And, absolutely ask yor instructor before trying something you heard elsewhere. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #17 August 24, 2005 Hey no need to be sorry we are in agreement - people should listen to their instructors! Blue skies You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites btucker 0 #18 August 24, 2005 I am on the long path to become an instructor, so I want to learn how to best teach + learn common mistakes (& not to make them myself!). Discussion is good, more discussion is better. If no-one else says it: Talk to your instructor or someone you trust with an instructor rating at your DZ before you act on any advice - esp. advice on the internet! Blue ones, Benno QuoteQuote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. You're joking... right? If an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing. Before going through AFF myself I read. And read. And read. And watched videos. And watched at the DZ. And asked questions. Here. At the DZ's. And read some more. Everything online needs to be taken into context - anyone who takes it as gospel is a fool. However, it DOES give great food for thought - the forums have prompted so many questions from me to my instructors that I wanted to know more about. I don't think the discussion of flaring too early and its downsides is doing anyone anything other than good. I'm sorry you feel differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #19 August 26, 2005 Quotei am just against students getting advice from more than their instructor. The instructor will teach them what they need to know. If we give them conflicting advice from their instructor and they are in an emergency situation they do not have time to choose between two different pieces of advice, that is why they have instructors and that is why instructors get ratings. You do not hear people at the dropzone giving advice to students unless they are instructors so we should not do it here. You go to your dz and teach a student how to land and see how their instructor reacts to you. If a student was to read a post on how to land or anything with someone that has as low jump numbers as yourself and then goes and practises it there is a chance you could get them killed as you are only learning yourself. This is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. Delayed response as I haven't been online here a few days. I don't see how your comments about giving advice with my jump numbers and learning how to skydive from the internet tally at all with what my comment was: Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) All I was saying was that reading about something here might make a student pay a bit more attention or ask his/her instructor something. That comes from my own experience with reading things here that made me wonder what to do in certain circumstances, and taking the questions to my instructors. Which is in accordance with the sticky at the top of this forum about the advice here.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #20 August 27, 2005 QuoteThis is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. I don't think any skydiving student should learn how to skydive on the internet. However, I don't think we need to censor what we say here because some student might be reading it. Otherwise, this would be the blandest, most worthless forum in the history of the internet. There are many other sources of information and misinformation out there. Students have access to those. too. I've seen students download the SIM and study that prior to their first class. Many have watched "Pointbreak." If you are going to learn to skydive, you need to discriminate between good and bad sources of info. If you have questions, ask your instructor. A good one will have answers for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nessvegas 0 #21 August 28, 2005 I am a recent graduate of AFF and someone who is, like many of you, addicted to higher risk activities. While I have many years riding my motorcyle I still take riding courses nearly every year to remain current, practice EMP, and continue my education. While not yet an accomplished skydiver, I am taking every precaution I can and reading evrything I can, to become as safe as possible at the DZ. I do not wish to kill myself, or God forbid, someone else. I read this post after I too flared high on my #10 jump. Why? Stupid reason....I was concentrating too hard on making that unassisted landing with'in 20 meters. Had my mind been where it should have been, i would have comfortably landed beyond my mark and then discussed with my coach where I went wrong in my pattern. Thankfully my instructors had drilled holding an early flare, and while not a comfortable landing, I just came away with that lucky/stupid feeling. Since it seems many students are reading this site daily, how would those in control feel about a student section where the individual student can post mistakes he/she have made in training, why they think they made it and the end result? This is information each of us can take to our instructors and use to perhaps keep us safer while learning. I would not expect it to turn into place for jump/canopy education, but rather a place for learning some "what ifs" that we can take to our DZ instructors for clarification. Also, I wonder how many students are injured because they do not wish to be embarrassed by making a minor mistake, like landing long or in a safe area off the DZ, so they overcompensate and make a bigger mistake? Could this be my last problem? Maybe....won't happen again. Good thoughts to all.... Erik Bad pics (pulled off video), but high flare and end result...... _________________________________________ I married the right one......it just took me 2 times! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Witelli 0 #14 August 23, 2005 QuoteQuote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) I totally agree, I tend to flare early and my instructor would yell through the walkie talkie to hold it, and I fought with myself not to release the flare. Now it's always in my head. I think we, as students need to hear these things, but as Bigway said, we need to pass everything by our instructor before attempting to do something. Our instructors know our abilities better than anyone. Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #15 August 23, 2005 Quote Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Witelli 0 #16 August 24, 2005 QuoteQuote Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here. not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. Sorry 1010, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I just wanted to stress that you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions to your instructor about anything related to skydiving. If you are curious about something, feel free to ask him/her, DON'T JUST DROP IT. And, absolutely ask yor instructor before trying something you heard elsewhere. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #17 August 24, 2005 Hey no need to be sorry we are in agreement - people should listen to their instructors! Blue skies You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #18 August 24, 2005 I am on the long path to become an instructor, so I want to learn how to best teach + learn common mistakes (& not to make them myself!). Discussion is good, more discussion is better. If no-one else says it: Talk to your instructor or someone you trust with an instructor rating at your DZ before you act on any advice - esp. advice on the internet! Blue ones, Benno QuoteQuote I don't think an AFF level one injuring his foot needs to be talked about here in the forums. You have many people here who read these forums and are going through aff or wanting to learn. These forums are for learning about how to prevent injurues but it is up to the instructors to teach the students and not the people in the forums. You're joking... right? If an AFF student is reading these forums and reads this thread, and learns that an injury is the likely outcome of flaring much too early, then surely thats a good thing. Before going through AFF myself I read. And read. And read. And watched videos. And watched at the DZ. And asked questions. Here. At the DZ's. And read some more. Everything online needs to be taken into context - anyone who takes it as gospel is a fool. However, it DOES give great food for thought - the forums have prompted so many questions from me to my instructors that I wanted to know more about. I don't think the discussion of flaring too early and its downsides is doing anyone anything other than good. I'm sorry you feel differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #19 August 26, 2005 Quotei am just against students getting advice from more than their instructor. The instructor will teach them what they need to know. If we give them conflicting advice from their instructor and they are in an emergency situation they do not have time to choose between two different pieces of advice, that is why they have instructors and that is why instructors get ratings. You do not hear people at the dropzone giving advice to students unless they are instructors so we should not do it here. You go to your dz and teach a student how to land and see how their instructor reacts to you. If a student was to read a post on how to land or anything with someone that has as low jump numbers as yourself and then goes and practises it there is a chance you could get them killed as you are only learning yourself. This is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. Delayed response as I haven't been online here a few days. I don't see how your comments about giving advice with my jump numbers and learning how to skydive from the internet tally at all with what my comment was: Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) All I was saying was that reading about something here might make a student pay a bit more attention or ask his/her instructor something. That comes from my own experience with reading things here that made me wonder what to do in certain circumstances, and taking the questions to my instructors. Which is in accordance with the sticky at the top of this forum about the advice here.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #20 August 27, 2005 QuoteThis is my opinion and i would like to hear what others think about AFF level one students learning how to skydive from the internet. I don't think any skydiving student should learn how to skydive on the internet. However, I don't think we need to censor what we say here because some student might be reading it. Otherwise, this would be the blandest, most worthless forum in the history of the internet. There are many other sources of information and misinformation out there. Students have access to those. too. I've seen students download the SIM and study that prior to their first class. Many have watched "Pointbreak." If you are going to learn to skydive, you need to discriminate between good and bad sources of info. If you have questions, ask your instructor. A good one will have answers for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nessvegas 0 #21 August 28, 2005 I am a recent graduate of AFF and someone who is, like many of you, addicted to higher risk activities. While I have many years riding my motorcyle I still take riding courses nearly every year to remain current, practice EMP, and continue my education. While not yet an accomplished skydiver, I am taking every precaution I can and reading evrything I can, to become as safe as possible at the DZ. I do not wish to kill myself, or God forbid, someone else. I read this post after I too flared high on my #10 jump. Why? Stupid reason....I was concentrating too hard on making that unassisted landing with'in 20 meters. Had my mind been where it should have been, i would have comfortably landed beyond my mark and then discussed with my coach where I went wrong in my pattern. Thankfully my instructors had drilled holding an early flare, and while not a comfortable landing, I just came away with that lucky/stupid feeling. Since it seems many students are reading this site daily, how would those in control feel about a student section where the individual student can post mistakes he/she have made in training, why they think they made it and the end result? This is information each of us can take to our instructors and use to perhaps keep us safer while learning. I would not expect it to turn into place for jump/canopy education, but rather a place for learning some "what ifs" that we can take to our DZ instructors for clarification. Also, I wonder how many students are injured because they do not wish to be embarrassed by making a minor mistake, like landing long or in a safe area off the DZ, so they overcompensate and make a bigger mistake? Could this be my last problem? Maybe....won't happen again. Good thoughts to all.... Erik Bad pics (pulled off video), but high flare and end result...... _________________________________________ I married the right one......it just took me 2 times! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
