Drowning doesn't look like drowning

[havoc996 0]

With summer rapidly approaching many more of us will be on the water or doing water training. Please take a moment to read this. I posted it as a reply to a question, but thought about it and decided to post up for all. Stay safe.

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

Trail mix? Oh, you mean M&M's with obstacles.

[Trafficdiver 8]

No kidding I would be looking for the screaming, kicking and splashing. Good read.

[grue 1]

havoc996

With summer rapidly approaching many more of us will be on the water or doing water training. Please take a moment to read this. I posted it as a reply to a question, but thought about it and decided to post up for all. Stay safe.

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

Yup, I spent years as a lifeguard and it's simply not what most people expect. Active drowning is not the norm.

cavete terrae.

[havoc996 0]

Trafficdiver

No kidding I would be looking for the screaming, kicking and splashing. Good read.

This is precisely why I recommend reading this. Your response IS what most will be looking for and not at all what it will actually look like.

Trail mix? Oh, you mean M&M's with obstacles.

[virgin-burner 1]

to the danger of sounding ignorant here.. i still dont get why people in this day and age dont know how to swim. or get themselves into dangerous waters..

i like swimming, i like water.. if i get any further than say 300ft from shore in a lake i start to feel uncomfortable. that's probably the distance i could still make back when i've had a cramp or experienced any other problem.

i also dont swim in high current rivers that are deep, shallow and higher current is ok.

i dont like swimming from boats!

good read anyway, i wouldnt have noticed that boy in the linked video was having problems..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Boogers 0]

virgin-burner

i dont like swimming from boats!

Did that once from a sailboat anchored in a tidal river. Once you jumped in you quickly started getting pulled away from the boat by the the outgoing tidal current. It took everything you had to fight the current to get back to the boat. You just couldn't paddle around at leisure the way you wanted to. A bad idea!

Before doing this, throw something in the water first and watch it's drift, then judge whether or not it's safe. And make sure someone remains on the boat who knows how to pull up anchor and come after you if necessary.

[havoc996 0]

Boogers

***i dont like swimming from boats!

Did that once from a sailboat anchored in a tidal river. Once you jumped in you quickly started getting pulled away from the boat by the the outgoing tidal current. It took everything you had to fight the current to get back to the boat. You just couldn't paddle around at leisure the way you wanted to. A bad idea!

Before doing this, throw something in the water first and watch it's drift, then judge whether or not it's safe. And make sure someone remains on the boat who knows how to pull up anchor and come after you if necessary.

Throwing something to check current is better than nothing but the current just under the surface can often be up to three times faster than the surface current.

Trail mix? Oh, you mean M&M's with obstacles.

[ianyapxw 0]

People aren't stupid, they aren't trying to kill themselves. Sometimes it could be because a kid doesn't know what he's getting himself into (a deep pool) or an Asian has never been to a beach with any kind of current.

Talked to a lifeguard the other day he had to pull a whole bunch of Asians, all from the same tour group, out of Australian waters.

[virgin-burner 1]

ianyapxw

People aren't stupid..

..he had to pull a whole bunch of Asians, all from the same tour group, out of Australian waters.

now i'm REALLY curious as to know what your definition of "stupid" is..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[ianyapxw 0]

That's because the Asians had no idea about how water conditions are like. Try living your whole life in a place where waves don't go over your ankle when you tiptoe and current at the beach is as much as a swimming pool.

Sure, you can watch all the movies you want but you'll never realise how strong current is until you're in it.

[StreetScooby 5]

Good read. Thanks!

We are all engines of karma

[virgin-burner 1]

ianyapxw

That's because the Asians had no idea about how water conditions are like. Try living your whole life in a place where waves don't go over your ankle when you tiptoe and current at the beach is as much as a swimming pool.

Sure, you can watch all the movies you want but you'll never realise how strong current is until you're in it.

maybe it would be smart if you checked the current BEFORE you went in; in the case of the asians, watch everyone be washed offshore and just watch the carnage!? now, THAT would be smart; plus, you'd get to collect a whole lot of nice cameras to boot!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[yoink 321]

virgin-burner

maybe it would be smart if you checked the current BEFORE you went in; in the case of the asians, watch everyone be washed offshore and just watch the carnage!? now, THAT would be smart; plus, you'd get to collect a whole lot of nice cameras to boot!

If you've grown up around water it's inconceivable that anyone could not see the danger. It's so obvious to you... but it's like expecting a whuffo to know what's obvious to skydivers.

I've just come back from Kauai where the wife and I had to pull 4 different people out of the waves on a non-lifeguarded beach during high surf over 2 weeks.
Every one of them was from middle America and none of them had any experience swimming in the ocean. They could all swim, but they simply didn't know what they didn't know - that 15ft surf hits like a truck unless you know what you're doing...

They weren't drowning (yet), but they were all either stunned or stuck in the surf zone and in danger of being washed onto the rocks. Fortunately for them the missus was a lifeguard and I've grown up on the ocean.

I've seen it time and time again - the waves look all soft an fluffy until you're under them. Then you're fucked.

The advice for tourists is the same as ours for newbies. If only the leathery locals are in the water, it's best to wait it out.


That article is a great read for people regularly around water. Thanks!

[ianyapxw 0]

Well said.

Was really surprised the very first time I encountered current.

[skygypsie 2]

havoc996

With summer rapidly approaching many more of us will be on the water or doing water training. Please take a moment to read this. I posted it as a reply to a question, but thought about it and decided to post up for all. Stay safe.

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

I just read this article, & here is a copy/paste a couple points:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
4.Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.

5.From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry this is somewhat a bit off thread, but given #4-#5,

I am hoping to get a better understanding of a recent USPA

decision made regarding their "investigation" into a very

good friend's skydive related drowning last summer.

He died in a tandem jump incident resulting in both TI & student water landing.

He was the TI on the tandem jump, with close to 9000 skydives & a certified scuba diver.

Though witness accounts; the witness being the student

who made it to shore, stated once he was released from

the harness, he witnessed "Paul" also swimming along side him, the 100' to shore.

The student stated he had to stop about 10' from

shore, standing up on the bottom, to catch his breath.

It was then he noticed he could no longer see "Paul".

The USPA determined because "Paul" was swimming, the

skydive landing was considered complete upon entering the

water.

They concluded once he started to swim, the skydive was
over.

The official decision " he drowned after the skydive was completed".

Therefore, refused to pay "Paul's" widow the insurance benefits he had been paying for.

His "mainstream" life insurance is refusing to pay, concluding he died on a skydive...

a non-coverable incident, therefore his policy through USPA.

None of it made sense, knowing "Paul's" abilities, but this

is not consistent with a drowning victim in #4 & #5, above.

Facts:
The lake tide (wake) was coming in, in the direction they would swim to shore.

Though the main was floating downstream with the under
current...

thinking he would have obviously chopped shortly before, or upon entering the water, thinking his shoes as well & releasing harness'

"Paul's" body was ultimately found 300' from shore, on the opposite side of the lake, as were the harnesses & shoes, though scattered from each other.

Input- feedback ????

* student spoke nor understand very little English
obviously there were not floatation devices

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Great read, thanks!

I was trained as a lifeguard by the Red Cross almost 40 years ago. We were not given this information then, we were told to watch for people who seems to be having trouble keeping their head above water but nothing this specific. The video is really enlightening!

I'm going to pass this link on to some other people. My family has a cottage on a lake and on summer weekends there are often many people swimming around the dock and out in the lake. Everyone should be familiar with this.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)