DocPop 1 #26 March 31, 2011 I think perhaps I am explaining myself very well. Allow me to address some of the (very valid) points you experienced guys have raised: Quote airtwardo IF you @ 200 jumps feel you need a digital altimeter to land your canopy..... I absolutely do not need an altimeter at all to land my canopy. However, for me, canopy flight is the best part of the jump and I constantly challenge myself to become more accurate in flying my pattern. I fully realize that many people view getting under a good canopy as the end of the fun part of the jump and just want to get down safely for another jump. QuoteRon When in traffic it is MUCH more important to look around than get the perfect swoop. I could not agree more. Canopy collisions are killing people and a safe landing off the DZ is infinitely better than injuring someone or worse right at your intended landing spot. Quote riggerpaul When you are just trying to fit into the pattern with a bunch of other people, precise turn point altitudes and positions will often be at the expense of harmony with the actual stuff going on around you. So, like airtwardo, I must presume that the precise pattern work of which you speak is on the path to swooping. Swooping, as we all know, is supposed to have a separation (time and/or place) from the "regular" pattern. Again, I agree totally and will abandon my planned pattern if it is too crowded. My home DZ has two landing areas and I usually land in the further one. I am usually the only person there. In my case, I am in the process of learning to swoop, but the courses I have attended have said that flying a pre-planned pattern (where safe!) is good discipline for anyone, even those doing a conventional straight in landing. I am sorry for derailing this thread, maybe I could restate my original point with more clarity for the OP: IF you think you will want to use an alti under canopy (which you will if you plan to take a canopy course) then a digital is really the only way to be accurate when under canopy."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #27 March 31, 2011 Quote It's because your brain understands the speedometer on a '53 Oldsmobile quicker than the Warp Speed digital display on the Enterprise! Exactly! I learned to drive by the seat of my pants...didn't need no stinkin' dashboard gadgets. Comes in handy when drifting through the turns. Rolled over into canopy accuracy rather nicely, too.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #28 March 31, 2011 >>One other reason I don't like analogs it that they are useless for flying accurate landing patterns as they are just too inaccurate under 1000 feet.<< >>IF you think you will want to use an alti under canopy (which you will if you plan to take a canopy course) then a digital is really the only way to be accurate when under canopy.<< You tend to speak in authortative absolutes...you shouldn't. Brian taught a recent course here and several of the participants didn't use digital altimeters, so it's not really the ONLY way to go. Are they more accurate? possibly...but it's just a pressure sensor, put ten together and see if they all match. My wrist mounted Neptune doesn't EVER match my audiable. They are also more expencive, less durable and rely on battery power to function...not always the best choice for someone just getting into the sport. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #29 March 31, 2011 Quote You tend to speak in authortative absolutes...you shouldn't. He’s absolutely sure he’s right. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #30 March 31, 2011 >IF you think you will want to use an alti under canopy (which you will if you >plan to take a canopy course) then a digital is really the only way to be >accurate when under canopy. You may be confusing accuracy with number of digits you see. Digital altimeters just sense pressure, which is not a super accurate determiner of altitude in a skydiving environment. You can be off +/- 200 feet in freefall due to pressure changes, and easily +/- 50 feet under canopy if you have a fast canopy. Note that this is not because the altimeter is accurate or not; it could be accurate to ten decimal points in measuring the pressure. However, that number is not all that accurate when it comes to telling you how many feet above the ground you are. So it generally comes down to what else you want it to do and what you are more comfortable reading. If you are going to use it often, and it's important to you, a full-analog is probably the way to go - you will never lose your instrument when your battery dies or it gets too cold or something. If you are going to use it less often, or are more comfortable with digital than analog readouts, and are OK with losing it occasionally - digitals might be the way to go. Personally, I have both. When I definitely need it to work (i.e. doing a demo somewhere new, taking an AFF student) I generally use my Alti II because it's more reliable. When I'm doing video for a team I have a digital that's convenient because it also tells time - and because when I do video I rarely need to look at it in the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #31 April 2, 2011 Quote Quote Pop, this would proably be better. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/mount22.jpg What was I saying about "old school"? My very first thought was your link was going to be one out of an airplane. Surprise, surprise! Here is the mount for one of those. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/DSCN0291.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skychock 0 #32 April 3, 2011 JUST A NOTE: You'll find PopDoc on another thread asking about Katana's and Velocity's. 200 jumps in 4 years?? And thinking an altimeter is as accurate as a radar altimeter. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me!! Of course I've been busted up befo'New to the sport? Analog is close enough for gov't work and Yous the eyeball altimeter below 1000, and for god sake watch for traffic!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #33 April 4, 2011 Quote JUST A NOTE: You'll find PopDoc on another thread asking about Katana's and Velocity's. 200 jumps in 4 years?? And thinking an altimeter is as accurate as a radar altimeter. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me!! Of course I've been busted up befo'New to the sport? Analog is close enough for gov't work and Yous the eyeball altimeter below 1000, and for god sake watch for traffic!!!!! OK dude, I guess you're not open to new ideas. But this is not my idea. This is the opinion of a large number of canopy flight instructors and competitors. For the sake of completeness, nobody is saying to fly a pattern blindly relying on just using the alti, but to use it as a tool to aid accuracy. I am also not saying that it's not possible to fly a good pattern without a digital alti. Finally, I did ask about Velocities in another thread, but not with a view to getting one, a fact which you left out above."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #34 April 5, 2011 Quote Quote JUST A NOTE: You'll find PopDoc on another thread asking about Katana's and Velocity's. 200 jumps in 4 years?? And thinking an altimeter is as accurate as a radar altimeter. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me!! Of course I've been busted up befo'New to the sport? Analog is close enough for gov't work and Yous the eyeball altimeter below 1000, and for god sake watch for traffic!!!!! OK dude, I guess you're not open to new ideas. But this is not my idea. This is the opinion of a large number of canopy flight instructors and competitors. For the sake of completeness, nobody is saying to fly a pattern blindly relying on just using the alti, but to use it as a tool to aid accuracy. I am also not saying that it's not possible to fly a good pattern without a digital alti. Finally, I did ask about Velocities in another thread, but not with a view to getting one, a fact which you left out above. I think what he is referring to is the fact that you have 200 jumps in 4 years and you are jumping a Katana 135 loaded at 1.52:1. PD does not even recommend the 135 for novice or intermediate canopy pilots. Give us one name of one canopy instructor or competitor that thinks this is a good idea. As was mentioned in another thread your posts tend to be “absolutes” and wrong. At the rate you are going you will probability be the main topic of discussion on dz.com soon. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #35 April 14, 2011 Quote from Ian Drennan on the altimeter for flying a pattern question. Quote ------------Quote----------------------------------------------- Avoid relying on your altimeter for anything. It should be telling you what you already know. ------------------------------------------------------------------ I disagree. While one should avoid over reliance on the device (ie being perfectly capable of jumping, and landing without one). One should also use the tools where available for refinement and accuracy, particularly in the pattern. Digital devices provide a reasonably reliable way to do that. Blues, Ian "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
