strop45 0
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skinnay 0
Quotethat is quite shocking, and probably illegal. Arguably, you have not yet 'paid for anything' therefore, they cannot keep the money at will. Especially in the case of a tandem jump.
I go to a movie, i pay to get in, I sit in my seat, and then the projector breaks and they do not refund the money. Like I said, arguably that is probably illegal and a handful of letters to the States AG and consumers agencies (I would think) would fix that)
If you received the training for the jump, then perhaps there is some argument for their policy, but that is a pretty crappy way to treat your customers.
How about you call the customers ahead of time if the weather is iffy, so they make a decision whether to go or not?
If that was me, I would be writing the AG and a bunch of other agencies.
Also explained by:
http://www.bbb.org/houston/business-reviews/sky-diving/skydive-spaceland-in-rosharon-tx-13004079/
versus:
http://www.bbb.org/west-florida/business-reviews/parachuting-instruction-companies/skydive-city-in-zephyrhills-fl-52002471
(yes I am bragging)
lol
I'm just wondering...
If you go through the 'training', have you in fact received something?
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
If you go through the 'training', have you in fact received something?
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
4dbill 0
They are running a business. It's about one policy that works MOST of the time, but not every time. That's how almost all efficient businesses are run. Making exceptions causes more headaches, usually, down the road. Owners make big decisions and don't have time or energy to deal with each customer situation. It's easier and more sensible for owners to make one policy that every employee follows than giving them authorization to make exceptions.
It's a law of average. One rule works almost all the times. Some situations fall between the cracks, such as this case, but in overall, one policy, without exception, serves the business well.
Sure, owners/managers can try to please all people all the time, but such is an impossible task as the business grows, when he/she can not be involved in every transaction.
Think of government policies and laws. Most of them work most of the time, but somebody gets shafted. It's not about individuals. It's about one rule that works most of the times for most people.
4DBill
DSLRforvideo.com
It's a law of average. One rule works almost all the times. Some situations fall between the cracks, such as this case, but in overall, one policy, without exception, serves the business well.
Sure, owners/managers can try to please all people all the time, but such is an impossible task as the business grows, when he/she can not be involved in every transaction.
Think of government policies and laws. Most of them work most of the time, but somebody gets shafted. It's not about individuals. It's about one rule that works most of the times for most people.
4DBill
DSLRforvideo.com
Didn't mean to post all that on here.
In short, yes it's true.
In short, yes it's true.
i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce
billvon 3,008
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>I go to a movie, i pay to get in, I sit in my seat, and then the projector breaks
>and they do not refund the money.
Let's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded ready to go, and it rains, so you cancel it. Should they give you back the money? After all, you have not yet "paid for anything."
>and they do not refund the money.
Let's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded ready to go, and it rains, so you cancel it. Should they give you back the money? After all, you have not yet "paid for anything."
Quote>I go to a movie, i pay to get in, I sit in my seat, and then the projector breaks
>and they do not refund the money.
Let's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded ready to go, and it rains, so you cancel it. Should they give you back the money? After all, you have not yet "paid for anything."
Hey Billvon,
This ain't a party with food, this is a situation where someone probably looked at a video of Booth, got a briefing and was screwed for no consideration of the service they paid for.
A small service fee would be more in order, but to keep all of it is simply a fuck job.
This is obviously a policy that can be attributed to mis-management. You just don't do that in business.
Unfortunately many DZ operations are simply skydivers pretending to be businessmen, and the overall responders here seem to favor Spaceland's policy of no refunds simply a method to make money for nothin'.
You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime
Many, many, many businesses have no refund policies. They are in place to protect various costs.
What should a dz do when they weather looks iffy? Call everyone and say "sorry guys dont come to work today." Some small DZs prob do that, but thats small DZs. Large DZs cant afford to do that, because if they did they would not be large DZs.
What should a dz do when they weather looks iffy? Call everyone and say "sorry guys dont come to work today." Some small DZs prob do that, but thats small DZs. Large DZs cant afford to do that, because if they did they would not be large DZs.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero
Quote>I go to a movie, i pay to get in, I sit in my seat, and then the projector breaks
>and they do not refund the money.
Let's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded ready to go, and it rains, so you cancel it. Should they give you back the money? After all, you have not yet "paid for anything."
You are an intelligent person. Why do you go so far out in left field sometime? No where close to the same thing and the catering company is going to give you the food.
ghost47 18
QuoteLet's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded ready to go, and it rains, so you cancel it. Should they give you back the money? After all, you have not yet "paid for anything."
I think a better analogy is, let's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded and ready to go, and it rains, so THE CATERING COMPANY cancels, because their vans cannot drive through the rain. Should they give you back the money?
Also explained by:
http://www.bbb.org/houston/business-reviews/sky-diving/skydive-spaceland-in-rosharon-tx-13004079/
versus:
http://www.bbb.org/west-florida/business-reviews/parachuting-instruction-companies/skydive-city-in-zephyrhills-fl-52002471
(yes I am bragging)
http://www.bbb.org/houston/business-reviews/sky-diving/skydive-spaceland-in-rosharon-tx-13004079/
versus:
http://www.bbb.org/west-florida/business-reviews/parachuting-instruction-companies/skydive-city-in-zephyrhills-fl-52002471
(yes I am bragging)
Exactly, and though I don't see eye to eye with you on a number of issues, to maintain a good BBB report requires proper management which Z Hills shows to have, and mis-management which is apparent by Spacelands report.
You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime
tkhayes 348
I should have added a chuckle and sarcasm. Thanks for the fdbk, but honestly, DZ's can run their business whatever way they want.
I got some flack privately from other users wondering why I am poking my nose into it. so:
[DZO_off]These are my opinions and not the opinions of Skydive City. I write a lot of letters when I get shitty service, and I definitely would write a few if this happened to me[DZO_on]
As a Skydive City DZO, I get a chuckle when I hear from customers in Florida who talk badly about other dropzones. Yes of course I get customer complaints.
I got one the other day - Tandem complained that she only got 10 stills when her friend got 30 stills from their video/photo package. Even though the sign on the wall says "Stills are considered 'free', you are paying the video" and "camera malfunctions happen - no refunds", I still heard her out and asked her a simple question:
"What can I do to make this right for you?"
She told me
And I did it.
Pretty simple concept.
I got some flack privately from other users wondering why I am poking my nose into it. so:
[DZO_off]These are my opinions and not the opinions of Skydive City. I write a lot of letters when I get shitty service, and I definitely would write a few if this happened to me[DZO_on]
As a Skydive City DZO, I get a chuckle when I hear from customers in Florida who talk badly about other dropzones. Yes of course I get customer complaints.
I got one the other day - Tandem complained that she only got 10 stills when her friend got 30 stills from their video/photo package. Even though the sign on the wall says "Stills are considered 'free', you are paying the video" and "camera malfunctions happen - no refunds", I still heard her out and asked her a simple question:
"What can I do to make this right for you?"
She told me
And I did it.
Pretty simple concept.
tkhayes 348
as far as the BBB goes, you get a 'F" rating for simply NOT responding to the customer complaint that they pass on to you.
You do not necessarily even have to 'satisfy' the customer. The BBB puts a lot of weight into your responsiveness and will hear your side as well.
i.e. "Hey our policy is posted on the wall, and the customer understood that when they signed up." could keep that F rating away.
You do not necessarily even have to 'satisfy' the customer. The BBB puts a lot of weight into your responsiveness and will hear your side as well.
i.e. "Hey our policy is posted on the wall, and the customer understood that when they signed up." could keep that F rating away.
tkhayes 348
QuoteLet's say you're planning a big party. You hire a catering company, the vans are loaded ready to go, and it rains, so you cancel it. Should they give you back the money? After all, you have not yet "paid for anything."
A valid example yes. Most 'normal folk' people are somewhat accustomed to catering and outdoor events, and probably less likely to not ask about the 'weather' scenario.
We go out of our way to make sure the skydiving customer understands the weather scenario, even though we get asked it 100 times a day. 'normal folk' do not have much understanding about how the weather affects skydiving. Whereas it is everyday stuff for us.
i.e. we still get tandem reservations calling on Friday for a Saturday jump almost every summer, even when a hurricane is bearing down on us in the gulf and we are evacuating.
I am pretty sure the catering company would talk about Plan B during the planning of the event since they want to get paid.
In Spaceland's scenario, it sounds like the catering company would be asking for 100% payment up front if that were the case.
tkhayes 348
Oh and why do i know so much about customer service? I worked for IBM for 14+ years from 1981 to 1995, all of it in the Customer Service division.
The training (at that time) is/was legendary.
The training (at that time) is/was legendary.
tkhayes 348
QuoteWhat should a dz do when they weather looks iffy? Call everyone and say "sorry guys dont come to work today." Some small DZs prob do that, but thats small DZs. Large DZs cant afford to do that, because if they did they would not be large DZs.
we're a large DZ and we do that.
billvon 3,008
>This ain't a party with food, this is a situation where someone probably looked
>at a video of Booth, got a briefing and was screwed for no consideration of the
>service they paid for.
Yep. And the instructor was screwed because he showed up and made no money that day, even though he cleared the day and did everything he needed to prepare to take students. And the DZO is screwed because even if no one jumps, he has to pay rent on his property.
Like I said before, the most important thing in such a transaction is to say up front "no refunds." Then the customer can decide whether to try to jump there or at a different DZ.
>Unfortunately many DZ operations are simply skydivers pretending to be businessmen . . .
I'd call that "fortunately." I prefer being in a sport made up of other people like me, rather than a sport run by lawyers, business school graduates, venture capitalists and shareholders.
But again, people can patronize any business they like.
>at a video of Booth, got a briefing and was screwed for no consideration of the
>service they paid for.
Yep. And the instructor was screwed because he showed up and made no money that day, even though he cleared the day and did everything he needed to prepare to take students. And the DZO is screwed because even if no one jumps, he has to pay rent on his property.
Like I said before, the most important thing in such a transaction is to say up front "no refunds." Then the customer can decide whether to try to jump there or at a different DZ.
>Unfortunately many DZ operations are simply skydivers pretending to be businessmen . . .
I'd call that "fortunately." I prefer being in a sport made up of other people like me, rather than a sport run by lawyers, business school graduates, venture capitalists and shareholders.
But again, people can patronize any business they like.
NWFlyer 2
Quote
"What can I do to make this right for you?"
Customer Service 101 ... excellent service recovery for an actual or perceived poor service experience can create a better impression (and better word of mouth/reputation/free marketing) than getting things right in the first place.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
JohnRich 4
QuoteQuoteI love my drop zone's method:
Jump, jump, jump, jump, jump.
Pay.
Do students and tandems get to follow that same policy?
Heck no! I'm special. Actually, all the experienced jumpers are special. But at many drop zones, even the long time experienced jumpers who have been there forever, still aren't trusted to pay at the end of the day.
QuoteI should have added a chuckle and sarcasm. Thanks for the fdbk, but honestly, DZ's can run their business whatever way they want.
I got some flack privately from other users wondering why I am poking my nose into it. so:
[DZO_off]These are my opinions and not the opinions of Skydive City. I write a lot of letters when I get shitty service, and I definitely would write a few if this happened to me[DZO_on]
As a Skydive City DZO, I get a chuckle when I hear from customers in Florida who talk badly about other dropzones. Yes of course I get customer complaints.
I got one the other day - Tandem complained that she only got 10 stills when her friend got 30 stills from their video/photo package. Even though the sign on the wall says "Stills are considered 'free', you are paying the video" and "camera malfunctions happen - no refunds", I still heard her out and asked her a simple question:
"What can I do to make this right for you?"
She told me
And I did it.
Pretty simple concept.
That's just crazy talk.
It amazes me the people that will argue a bad position with a customer just for the sake of being right or coming out on top. When in the end, over a years time it wouldn't make even a small dent in the bottom line and in all likelyhood costs them money because the people are going to leave and then shit talk them to their friends and all over the internet.
I can think of several whos ego gets in the way of the big picture.
At the end of the day, this practice may be legal, and there may be reasons for it but....
It pisses the customers off, this isn't a good way to ensure that your business thrives.
Anyone heard of customer service? To me that's giving customers what they want and will pay for...Not taking their money and giving them....?
Not being able to jump is enough of a downer without leaving them feeling ripped off.
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