Do you loosen your chest strap after opening?

[DSE 5]

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I do. Not that I swoop but for me it just feels more comfy not cinched down all tight. I will say that it's the LAST thing I do. My order of events are as follows.

1. Deploy
2. Check for traffic while opening and once under canopy
3. Unzip arm wings
4. Check for traffic
5. Collapse slider
6. Check for traffic and grab toggles
7. Release brakes and ensure canopy is flying properly
8. Check traffic, if none let go of toggles and loosen chest strap.
9. Unzip leg wings

You may reconsider the order?
Staying slow until fully ready to fly is how we'd would prefer you flying, especially in bigger formations.
Legwings unzipped and stowed before releasing toggles. You can steer with legs and rear risers before releasing controls, thus maintaining slower flight.
I'd suggest:

1. Deploy
2. Check for traffic while opening and once under canopy
3. Unzip arm wings
4. Check for traffic while steerng with legs and rear risers.
5. Collapse slider, loosen chest strap.
6. Check for traffic, Unzip leg wings
7. Check for traffic and release brakes/fly/land

[d100965 0]

DSE,
Millertimes main point was to ensure that you had done a controllability check before loosening your chest strap to ensure that if you had to cutaway then you would not have to do it with a loose rig and possible handle location issues.
Whilst the point you made to ensure that you are still going slow when checking for traffic is 100% correct, the order you posted misses out Millertimes point which is equally valid.

p.s. Man, I am on fire today! I'm having full on discussions with Dave and now also DSE!!
Now where is Diablopilot????

[Amazon 7]

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Reading another thread made me ponder this question. I don't ever loosen my chest strap. I still lightly load my canopy (1:1 on a Sabre 2) and don't do any high performance landings. so I figured I don't need to bother with it. Is there any reason why I should? Why do you do it?

I do it for comfort... the "girls" want to be free

[mr2mk1g 10]

On DSE's above point - re chest strap loosening, I would expect most should be able to do that with toggles in your hands while maintaining fairly deep or at least half brakes. I guess that may not hold true with some high performance canopies or if the stall point is high in the toggle stroke but it works for me and means I don't have to let go of the control system at any time meaning quicker response should any traffic be spotted.

[d100965 0]

Good catch, thanks for pointing that out. I personally don't do it on my Velo and was unsure whether others on more intermediate canopies were doing it with toggles in hand.
(Millertime did post that he does it without toggles in hand).

oh, and Amazon, I move my leg straps forward after opening, cos the boys wanna be free also!

[davelepka 4]

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so what do you think to the proposed case that the canopy will handle better in turbulence then?

Maintaining pressurization is the key to handling turbulence. Think about an airplane wing, it maintains it's shape through turbulence, so the flight performance falls to the pilot to guide the wing properly.

Canopies are different in that that are not rigid. You might suggest that a faltter canopy flies better in turbulence, but that's very hard to prove. Different canopies, different WLs, different sized harness/risers, different states of line trim and brake line adjustment, all of these things will contribute to how the canopy flies. Add to that the differences in airflow from one area to another, you might not be looking at what you're looking at.

Just because the swoopers and higher-time jumpers have solid canopies near the beer line, and the lower time guys are getting bounced around out in the weeds, doesn't mean the position of the chest strap is to blame.

Again, this issue is two-fold. There's what people think is going on, and what is really happening. In the end, no canopy under any conditions must have the chast strap loose for proper operation. It is simply jumper choice, with no harm done either way (no harm except the reports of jumpers have trouble finding their handles when cutting away after loosening the chest strap, I guess that's a problem).

[millertime24 8]

While I agree with unzipping legs before brakes, I don't agree with loosening the chest strap before brakes. For reasons stated further up-thread I dont want a loose chest strap without knowing I have a fully functioning parachute and the only way (IMO) to do this is to release the brakes and perform a controll check. But I agree about getting out of the legs first.

Muff #5048

[michalm21 2]

I will support d100965 on this one.

I believe in loosening the chest strap after popping brakes.
Reason is if my canopy doesn't pass full controllability check and I have to cut away, I do not want a loose chest strap!
There was a fatality in Elsinore where a very experienced jumper popped his brakes under 1000ft coming back from a long spot and never managed to find his handles... I think it was 2 years ago or so

Also, I can easily loosen it up with toggles in my hands, so I never let go of them in this situation.

[DSE 5]

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DSE,
Millertimes main point was to ensure that you had done a controllability check before loosening your chest strap to ensure that if you had to cutaway then you would not have to do it with a loose rig and possible handle location issues.
Whilst the point you made to ensure that you are still going slow when checking for traffic is 100% correct, the order you posted misses out Millertimes point which is equally valid.

p.s. Man, I am on fire today! I'm having full on discussions with Dave and now also DSE!!
Now where is Diablopilot????

Wow...we're having an "on-fire" discussion?

I didn't dismiss anything. I merely pointed out that getting legs prior to popping toggles is a good practice.
Back to your 'on fire' I'd hate to see what "intense" looks like.

[edit @ Michalm; Reminder, I have a very short chest strap as pointed out above. handles don't move much. However...I agree that it might be an issue for some setups re; handles moving.

[d100965 0]

Thanks, that's another good answer, always with the good answers!
However, I'm not just "looking" at it and then just comparing swoopers to the lower time guys. I've been there, the guy with his rig too tight and my canopy doing funky stuff. Yet to me the simple act of loosening the chest strap made my canopy (and subsequent canopies) handle better on those hot turbulent days.
I'm gonna stick with that and let others carry on discussing their thoughts and quit hogging the thread. I will add that I don't know what I don't know, so maybe in a few more jumps that opinion will change....
p.s. DSE, "on fire" meant I was being involved in discussions with the big boys, not that I was right

[DocPop 1]

From Germain's book The Parachute and its Pilot:

"If we were to allow the risers to spread further apart from each other, our glide would improve somewhat. The first step in accomplishing this goal is to bring the slider down to the bottom of the risers, and loosen the chest strap. This allows the canopy to "expand out" and flatten more, and in fact grow the surface area.The effects of this are more pronounced on smaller canopies, particularly those with heavy wing loading. Another positive side effect of this reduced Anhedral wing shape is an increased ability to save yourself from a low turn, and a general dampening of oscillatory tendencies on the roll axis."

In other words:

- better ability to get back from a long spot
- better ability to recover from a low turn
- better canopy stability

IMO, these are good reasons for any pilot to do this form of housekeeping. The only caveat is that it must be done with total awareness of canopy traffic.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Ron 10]

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I have seen skydivers on the flightline that are so petrified of not being tightened down that they have got their rig chest strap tightened down so much they can hardly breathe. And I'm not talking about just tight, way more tight.

People think mine is too tight... I used to wear it loose and D Thomas always used to bitch at me and crank it down... He designed the rig, so I guess he knows how it should be worn.

Over time, I got used to it being tight and it helps prevent the handles from shifting.

Now, one I open I let the chest strap almost all of the way out.

So, tight in freefall
Loose under canopy.

I can tell the difference between the strap being loose or tight under canopy.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[voilsb 1]

I loosen mine all the way. It's not long enough to really lean forward on landing, but it's got a tiny bit of slack unde canopy. I also pull my slider off (used to pull it down). I don't do any induced-speed landings.

It allows you to really engage your harness, improving your ability to do coordinated turns. Coordinated turns allow your canopy to fly straight into the relative wind during turns, improving pressurization, stability, and recovery.
It reduces the anhedral arc of your canopy, improving the vertical lift vector, improving glide and flare performance, as well as reducing stall speed and improving roll-axis stability.

I started doing it on a Sabre2 190 loaded at 1:1. Noticeable, visible increase in glide (I could see my destination point move farther away as I loosened my chest strap). Immediate improvement of my landing ability. I could also fly my pattern completely on my harness, even on a 190 loaded at 1:1.

My girlfriend started doing it during a canopy class on her Falcon 175 loaded at 0.9:1. First thing she said after landing was that she could do harness turns now. Also said her F111 canopy was easier to land.

I freefall with my chest strap fairly tight, so my mud flaps are parallel to one another and vertical across my chest. After opening I unzip my arm wings then open my chest strap. This lets me fly in the harness and reach risers while I do everything else. Next I remove my slider and stuff it in my jumpsuit. Then I touch my emergency handles (which have moved), unzip my legs, pop my toggles, do a control check, and fly my pattern.

Brian

[NYJumper 0]

im a new jumper... 40 jumps..

i started loosening my strap at jump# 33. All i can say is i saw a huge difference in my landings.

pre loosening i would have sloppy stand ups. mainly because my balance was on a backward lean.

but once i loosened them up first landing i saw a huge difference as it allowed me to lean forward into the landing.

from that jump on i do it all the time.

i deal with all canopy issues. quick control check with risers then pointing myself in the direction of holding area.

at that point i collapse slider and loosen up chest strap, then do a full control check with handles.

[cocheese 0]

Yes 90% of the time. It feels better. It flies better. I can breathe better ..And I'm that much more ready for a water landing.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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REALLY turbo-charged one of my demo canopies by adding a split slider!

I like those split sliders much better than the ones you pull down all the way. Too bad they fell out of favor/style.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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The only thing that still worries me is possible malfunction or entanglement with another canopy and subsequent cutaway with then already loose chest strap.

Thanks for bringing up that point. I worry about low altitude canopy collisions as well. Split seconds wasted or not in finding your handles may make all the difference.

[freefalljukie 0]

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OK, so what do you think to the proposed case that the canopy will handle better in turbulence then?

So just to clear the air I am a "noob" who doesn’t know anything about anything (insert "stupid student" tirade below) but maybe my “newguyness” has allowed me to see a more simple (or possibly completely ignorant) view of this but; wouldn’t loosening the chest strap give a much greater PERCEPTION that the canopy would fly better under turbulence?
My logic being that by loosening the chest strap you now make the who rig “looser” and more free moving (or at least less bound to your body) therefore, with less points of connection the rig can now absorb more energy/turbulence without transmitting it directly into your body from the canopy. It’s hard to describe what I am trying to say but for example: the shocks and suspension in a sports car is much more “tight” or rigid which causes you to really “feel” the road under you (every bump and hump) as opposed to a minivan which would have much “looser” suspension which allows more absorbsion of energy before it gets you which could give the feeling or allusion of “smoother” or less turbulent ride when it actually is not.
I guess I’m asking the more experienced people if the looser straps cause better dispersion of energy through the rig and not so much directly into you??
AGAIN FOR CLARIFICATION, ME= DUMB STUDENT… KNOW NOTHING… NEED HELP… (just figured I’d save you the trouble of having to say it yourself)

[airtwardo 7]

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REALLY turbo-charged one of my demo canopies by adding a split slider!

I like those split sliders much better than the ones you pull down all the way. Too bad they fell out of favor/style.

Ya can still order 'em through Para-Gear, the one I made is a bit different in that it's slightly harder to split...more grommets and stiffer locking lines.

I think the reason they fell 'out of favor' is because it takes another minute to re-assemble...packers HATE that!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rhys 0]

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One argument is that the canopy can spread out more 'as it was designed', but that's bullshit. Yes, the canopy can spread out more, but it's not a design feature. The length of the risers, length of the harness, and the width of the yoke will all effect how much the canopy can spread out given the same length chest strap. Which one is 'right'? Where does PD list the ideal harness dimensions for a given canopy model or size?

I half agree with you and half disagree.

For example lets look at a small thin person on a 120 (whatever canopy you like) compared to a wide shouldered person on the same canopy.

Assuming the canopy was designed well enough to allow it to open to its intended dimentions with the slider at the links then the smaller person would gain more performance by opening their chest strap to allow the canopy to have the same shape as the person with the wide shoulders.

why? because the narrow shoulders of the smaller person will bring the risers closer together than the larger pilot but if they open their chest strap the canopy will then beallowed to be the shape it wants to be.

Some canopies have small sliders and there is great benefit in pulling the slider down the risers, if the slider is still restricting the canopy when pulled down to the confluence wrap then that slider is too small and the manufacturer should be contacted.

The lineset determines how wide the risers need to be for optimal flight performence, and anything be it the slider or your chest strap that restricts the canopy from opening to its desired point is reducing he performance of the canopy.

If you have a 3 metre long chest strap the canopy will not continue to flatten out as you keep lengthening the strap, as the width of the harness then restricts it from flattening out any further.

I open mine until there is some slack in the strap.

If the is lateral tention in your slider it needs to come down or needs to be bigger (wider) and if there is tention in your chest strap it needs to be opened or lengthened.

Let your canopy tell you what it wants.

Does it matter so much if the canopy is not s flat as it could be? Probably not in many cases.

But does it reduce the performance of the canopy... certainly.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[theonlyski 8]

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It's a really old 'trick' that use to make quite a difference on a PC, hang the front mounted reserve to the side and open the chest strap all the way.

It's also not recommended or taught at the Army Airborne school...

But what happens on a night jump, stays on the night jump!

I did loosen my chest strap as far as it would go, and even rigged my harness to have a semi loose chest strap, just tight enough to pass JMPI... less chance of getting my helmet knocked off my head or some riser burn on the neck!

They never did figure out who that 'asshole' that did a horizontal slip straight for the turn in area was...

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[PiLFy 3]

I loosen mine, but only about three inches or so. I was struggling w/landings. It was suggested that loosening the strap would help me w/that. I don't know enough to comment on improved flight characteristics. It helps me lean forward into a vertical attitude in the harness. That helps me bury the toggles during the flare (student canopies). I only do it after a full control check. Truth be told, my landings still suq. Loosening the strap has helped, though.

[popsjumper 2]

Nope. My canopy does everything I want it to do rather nicely as is.

IF there's a difference, I cannot see how it would improve on what I already have to such an extent that it would make me change anything.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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I used to wear it loose and D Thomas always used to bitch at me and crank it down... He designed the rig, so I guess he knows how it should be worn.

Ironic...me too. Derek did the same to me as a young jumper except that he did it for me to improve freefall stability.
It didn't make a noticeable difference in canopy flight, but I sure noticed an immediate difference in the belly flying with everything pulled in tighter. Air flow got a whole lot smoother.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JackC1 0]

I do, enough to let may harness spread but not so it's hanging way loose. I find it makes harness input more effective, or more likely it allows me to make more effective harness inputs (I also shuffle my legs traps down my thighs and bend my legs up slightly for the same reason). It also seems to improve the glide performance slightly and makes the canopy slightly more stable in the roll axis. The smaller the canopy the more noticeable these effects seem to be.

I loosen my chest strap only after I'm sure I've got clear airspace, that I'm pointed in a safe direction and when I'm sure I've got a canopy I'm happy to land. That means doing a control check first and loosening the chest strap with toggles in hand.

When I first started doing this, I didn't notice too much difference but now I've been doing it for a while, I notice when I don't do it. I guess I've learned to control the canopy with harness inputs better since I've been doing it.