drewcarp 0 #1 February 25, 2011 No I don't want any advice on what to buy! I just bought it! 2003 V3 w/ skyhook Spectre 190 PDR 193 Cypress 2. If anyone has any nice things to say about 2003 vectors I would love to hear it!! Are there major differences from 2003 compared to the newer vectors? I called UPT and red off my measurements and they said my twin must have had it built because it was all right on! Damn lucky! I'm not sure if it has mag riser covers, hoping so becase now that I paid for it I hear the V3 tuck tabs can be difficult. Also not sure what I think about a retro fitted skyhook, not sure if I'll leave it hooked up or not. But other than that I have never been so happy and broke at the same time. Cant wait until it gets here! Anyhoo I just had to tell someone as my GF does not understand my enthusiam, I know you all will!! Hope you all have a great day!!! Drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #2 February 25, 2011 Quote No I don't want any advice on what to buy! I just bought it! 2003 V3 w/ skyhook Spectre 190 PDR 193 Cypress 2. If anyone has any nice things to say about 2003 vectors I would love to hear it!! Are there major differences from 2003 compared to the newer vectors? I called UPT and red off my measurements and they said my twin must have had it built because it was all right on! Damn lucky! I'm not sure if it has mag riser covers, hoping so becase now that I paid for it I hear the V3 tuck tabs can be difficult. Also not sure what I think about a retro fitted skyhook, not sure if I'll leave it hooked up or not. But other than that I have never been so happy and broke at the same time. Cant wait until it gets here! Anyhoo I just had to tell someone as my GF does not understand my enthusiam, I know you all will!! Hope you all have a great day!!! Drew Congrats on your first rig! You can't go wrong with a Vector, and PD builds the world's best canopies - IMO. Of course we understand your girlfriend's inability to understand your enthusiasm. We call those ex-girlfriends.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 February 25, 2011 good on ye' mate! never understood how i could sell my first own rig over to another guy.. then i got my first CUSTOM-RIG.. couple hundred jumps later; the enthusiasm wont die off! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #4 February 25, 2011 Um, BEER! "Don't! Get! Eliminated!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #5 February 26, 2011 Quote I'm not sure if it has mag riser covers, hoping so becase now that I paid for it I hear the V3 tuck tabs can be difficult. Also not sure what I think about a retro fitted skyhook, not sure if I'll leave it hooked up or not. But other than that I have never been so happy and broke at the same time. Cant wait until it gets here! No, it probably doesn't have the magnetic riser covers. I don't believe UPT was selling them till 2009(ish) The retrofitted skyhook works just the same as the rest of the skyhook rigs. If you don't want it, you can disconnect the RSL shackle and POSSIBLY (not sure on the rules with UPT in this matter) remove the RSL lanyard. Unless you're jumping some video gear or something with a lot of snag hazards, why would you not want it?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #6 February 26, 2011 QuoteQuote I'm not sure if it has mag riser covers, hoping so becase now that I paid for it I hear the V3 tuck tabs can be difficult. Also not sure what I think about a retro fitted skyhook, not sure if I'll leave it hooked up or not. But other than that I have never been so happy and broke at the same time. Cant wait until it gets here! No, it probably doesn't have the magnetic riser covers. I don't believe UPT was selling them till 2009(ish) The retrofitted skyhook works just the same as the rest of the skyhook rigs. If you don't want it, you can disconnect the RSL shackle and POSSIBLY (not sure on the rules with UPT in this matter) remove the RSL lanyard. Unless you're jumping some video gear or something with a lot of snag hazards, why would you not want it? why would you!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #7 February 26, 2011 Thanks for the replies! I get it Weds @OnlySky...here we go again haha my fault, sorry I have been going back and forth. Initially the skyhook seems like a great idea but what it boils down to is two things.. Everyone who's anyone says they wouldn't rely on it so, I'm not going to change my EP's to where I would cut away at 500 feet if I need a new canopy based on having a skyhook. I have an audible to tell me when I hit 1k feet and every time I hear it I tell myself if anything happens I go straight to silver for more fabric. Adding a reserve to a collapsed/re-deploying main is pretty much just like a 2 out right? 9/10 times they deploy re/deploy together just fine so what good is the skyhook if you aren't going to cut away low? What scenario provides a good reason to use the skyhook? I can't think of any, you will always be better off adding the reserve, right? And the skyhook could cause a problem when I don't need it, which happens to be my most likely cutaway scenario, cutting away high. Which brings me to my next point.. The simpler your reserve system is the better. I understand a standard reserve, pull pin, spring fires, pc pulls canopy...I need to understand how the skyhook operates better before I'm comfortable with it. It hooks up too much shit to my last chance and there are lots of new failure modes that probably haven't even been discovered yet as it's still relatively new. So.. Unless I am thinking about changing my do not cut away below altitude to count on the skyhook why add failure modes and complexity? Granted I plan on getting some hands on explination from my rigger so hopefully I understand it enough to be comfortable with it but for now I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Fair assessment? What am I missing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycamefalling 0 #8 February 26, 2011 Congrats on the first rig. It is a great feeling to have your own rig. Be sure to post up some pics when you get it.Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead. And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #9 February 27, 2011 i think i'm agreeing with most of your points there regarding the skyhook; it's better to pull a little higher than rely on something complex that MAY be not so reliable..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamMasterJay 0 #10 February 27, 2011 QuoteWhat scenario provides a good reason to use the skyhook? I can't think of any, you will always be better off adding the reserve, right? Not no...but hell no! Do you think Bill Booth spent the past couple decades engineering the skyhook because it was a piece of shit? No! It hooks up too much shit to my last chance That's the point. Your main (that you're cutting away) is now your reserve pc. So back to your first question. Will you always be better by just adding a reserve? i watched buddy go in a few years ago. he was an excellent skydiver...way better than i will be in my lifetime. He had a canopy collision while in the landing pattern...he went in with a collapsed main and what you refer to as "silver" in his hand. There just wasn't enough time or airspeed for his reserve pc to extract the freebag. Small pc's don't work that well sub-terminal. The skyhook is a new system but if used correctly, it's a very good system. Again, not to be relied on...but used as a backup to the backup. The simpler your reserve system is the better. I understand a standard reserve, pull pin, spring fires, pc pulls canopy...I need to understand how the skyhook operates better before I'm comfortable with it. So you're saying you don't know how the system works...but in the same breath you're saying you're better off without it. Hmmm. A very wise man told me that you've got two eyes, two ears and only one mouth...so you should be looking and listening twice as much as you talk. Good choice on the rig.Truth is the distilled meaning of facts, for any truth refuted by a fact becomes a fallacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theonlyski 8 #11 February 27, 2011 Quote Everyone who's anyone says they wouldn't rely on it so, I'm not going to change my EP's to where I would cut away at 500 feet if I need a new canopy based on having a skyhook. I'd like to know who everyone who is anyone is, and how you polled them and asked them if they would use it. Never rely on the RSL or AAD, they're backup devices! Also, don't change your decision altitude. Quote so what good is the skyhook if you aren't going to cut away low? What scenario provides a good reason to use the skyhook? I can't think of any, you will always be better off adding the reserve, right? And the skyhook could cause a problem when I don't need it, which happens to be my most likely cutaway scenario, cutting away high. Which brings me to my next point.. It helps you open higher, or would you rather be low, under an unfamiliar canopy, off the dz, at dusk? That little bit of extra altitude could give you time to atleast see how the canopy flies before you try to land it. It also negates any reserve pilot chute hesitation You can disconnect it any time you want, its as easy as disconnecting the RSL shackle. Quote The simpler your reserve system is the better. I understand a standard reserve, pull pin, spring fires, pc pulls canopy...I need to understand how the skyhook operates better before I'm comfortable with it. It hooks up too much shit to my last chance and there are lots of new failure modes that probably haven't even been discovered yet as it's still relatively new. SO, now you're changing your mind from you don't like it, to you just don't understand it? http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=70 Read that, watch the video. Quote I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Being skeptical is fine, but how long do you want a new product to be out before you will accept it? You mentioned you hoped it had magnetic riser covers, IIRC the skyhook has been out longer than the mag riser covers. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #12 February 27, 2011 Quote Unless I am thinking about changing my do not cut away below altitude to count on the skyhook why add failure modes and complexity? Granted I plan on getting some hands on explination from my rigger so hopefully I understand it enough to be comfortable with it but for now I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Fair assessment? What am I missing? Help me understand why you're relying on your audible to tell you when you're below 1k and should go straight to silver but you're not wanting to rely on the Skyhook because it "causes problems?" Relying on either is a mistake, IMO. So do you also not jump with an AAD because it too, might cause problems (AAD's have killed far more people than faulty Skyhooks)? What am *I* missing in this conversation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #13 February 27, 2011 QuoteQuote Unless I am thinking about changing my do not cut away below altitude to count on the skyhook why add failure modes and complexity? Granted I plan on getting some hands on explination from my rigger so hopefully I understand it enough to be comfortable with it but for now I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Fair assessment? What am I missing? Help me understand why you're relying on your audible to tell you when you're below 1k and should go straight to silver but you're not wanting to rely on the Skyhook because it "causes problems?" Relying on either is a mistake, IMO. So do you also not jump with an AAD because it too, might cause problems (AAD's have killed far more people than faulty Skyhooks)? What am *I* missing in this conversation? +1 Spot he is missing the basics of staying alive. And the basics are not electronic devices they are your own awareness and actions. My first rig had everything you needed to survive but was not nearly as comfortable. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/FirstrigElsinore.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites virgin-burner 1 #14 February 27, 2011 are you bringing your lunchbox for your skydive there!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 5kyd1vergav 0 #15 February 27, 2011 killer sweet news dude! im in the same position, just got atom legend,170 elektra and 140 techno..... so stoked but no1 in the outside world gives a shit! im with ya tho--- literally the best feeling of my life to date!! peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drewcarp 0 #16 February 27, 2011 Edited to remove incorrect info so it doesn't confuse anyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JamMasterJay 0 #17 February 27, 2011 Quote-I don't need it above 1k. what about this "frequent shoulder problem" of yours? Quote-Counting on it below 1k is not recommended I agree. You shouldn't count on anything but yourself (as I've already stated)...IT'S A BACKUP TO YOUR BACKUP! Quote If the skyhook extracted your reserve in 99.9% of cutaways then you could rely on it and could lower your "safe to cutaway" altitude down to 300 or 400 feet or so. BACKUP... QuoteBUT...it isn't reliable enough to count on it. The thread above mentions a %15 failure rate which is probably high but there are enough stories on here of regular RSL deploys on Skyhook equipped rigs to make it a bad idea to count on it when you need it. BACKUP... Quote So those facts (if true, which is really what I am asking) really paint you into a corner when faced with a problem under 1k with a skyhook. Why are you so hell bent on this only being used when you're under 1k? I think this system has proven itself to be an extremely well engineered/working BACKUP.Truth is the distilled meaning of facts, for any truth refuted by a fact becomes a fallacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drewcarp 0 #18 February 27, 2011 The standard tried and true reserve system has been proven to work fine above 1K so you don't need a skyhook for high cutaways. If you have it you are in a way forced into relying on it low because if you don't rely on it and follow the recommend procedure which is straight to reserve... Your skyhook DOES effect reserve deployment when NOT cutting away in a slow speed reserve activation. The skyhook is inhibiting extraction of the freebag until your PC creates enough drag to break the TY-2A cord, which according to Bill Booth is roughly 25 mph, which is not likely survivable and that is when you reserve PC STARTS to pull your freebag out, you are still accelerating. "...above 25 mph, the reserve pilot chute will release the Skyhook and start to deploy the reserve normally. " -Bill Booth, Post 41 in this thread... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3346918;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; if I am reading it wrong let me know. The skyhook will slow down your freebag extraction when not cutting away from a partial canopy, which happens to be the recommended EP when below 1k, skyhook or not. You didn't address this in your post. Do you agree it can slow your reserve extraction? If not please explain what's wrong with my argument and if you agree answer this... If you ended up with a partial canopy at 500 feet would you cut away and bank on the skyhook working or go straight to silver and settle for a slower reserve extraction than you would have w/o the skyhook? I am concerned with using it under 1k because I won't ever need it up high, under 1k is all it is good for. A standard RSL or manual reserve activation is a simpler solution without the drawback (above in bold) and added complexity/unknown failure modes/increased possibility of rigging error. I don't have a shoulder problem, you have me confused with someone else. Let me know where I am wrong.. All in good fun, D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,373 #19 February 27, 2011 Hi drew, Quotethe red Ty-2A loop (the one that must break in order for your reserve bridle to pull out your free bag) Unless UPT has changed something since I last looked, this is just wrong information. If you make an emergency bail-out & go straight to your reserve, if you have a total & go straight to your reserve, and/or if you are doing a canopy transfer & just pulling the reserve ripcord; then the SkyHook has to break the red riggers tack thread that holds the SkyHook lanyard ( the red Type 2A loop ) to the 'hook.' These three scenarios do not require the red Type 2A line to break. I would suggest that you get a set of the packing instructions for the SkyHook & study them. Or get a copy & have a competent rigger explain the system to you. This is not to bash you; this is, hopefully, to educate you. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,460 #20 February 27, 2011 A skyhook isn't for you to think about. It's to give you a chance when you get caught up in fixing an almost-open canopy until you realize it's lower than you think. It's to give you a chance when you cut away only to realize that the T-shirt you decided to jump with just this once has blown over your reserve handle. It's to give you a chance when you cut away slowly because you took a hit during the skydive and aren't reacting too fast. It's not for everyone. But don't overthink it. Rely on yourself. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likestojump 3 #21 February 27, 2011 two mistakes : type IIa is gutted 550 cord. The part that needs to be broken is the seal thread - much lower breaking strength (4.75lbs) your reasoning relies on an assumption that the speed the reserve PC neeeds to achieve in order to create enough force to break the sealthread is higher than the speed at which it generates enough drag to start lifting the freebag from the packtray. Considering the reserve canopy + freebag weigh more than 4.75 lbs, I think we can deduce that such scenario is unlikely. the skyhook uses single wrap of thread, page 26 of the manual : http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Manual/MAN_004___Vector_3_Manual_07_44_13%5B1%5D.pdf of course if you are in doubt - remove it, and don't worry about. as Jay say - it's a BACKUP to a backup. lastly, if you find yourself under 1K needing to deploy your reserve, you have entered the "oh shit" territory which you were never supposed to be in in the first place. After all, this is skydiving, not basket weaving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drewcarp 0 #22 February 27, 2011 Hi Jerry, I was presented with this info via PM from an experienced jumper. I don't claim to know how it works all, my apologies if I made it seem that way. I am only testing my understanding of what they were implying and throwing it out there for the community to confirm or deny. I chose a Vector partially because of the skyhook and just paid 4 grand for one that is on the way to my house when I was PM'd the skyhook info relating to another post. I would prefer any claims about the skyhook delaying a reserve deployment were wrong, which it seems like they are. With you and Wendy and Likestojump saying that the issue is not true I am very relieved and frankly feel bad for wrongly bagging on the device. I wish there was a way to delete the thread as to not waste anyones else's time with the misinformation. My apologies and thanks for chiming in with a technical explanation. D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,460 #23 February 27, 2011 Asking questions and listening to the answers is how you will learn. Really. That's how you gain knowledge. If you only ask questions where you think you have the right answer, then you won't learn much, will you. Either that, or you should start winguiting with a Go-Pro right now, because you really are that good Even if you came to the conclusion that you didn't want the skyhook, but for the "right" reasons, that would be fine. What are the "right" ones? Well, if you know how it works, know what failure modes it's designed to mitigate, and accept the risk, then it's the right one. Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theonlyski 8 #24 February 28, 2011 Quote Also not sure what I think about a retro fitted skyhook, not sure if I'll leave it hooked up or not. Clicky Learn from others. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
theonlyski 8 #11 February 27, 2011 Quote Everyone who's anyone says they wouldn't rely on it so, I'm not going to change my EP's to where I would cut away at 500 feet if I need a new canopy based on having a skyhook. I'd like to know who everyone who is anyone is, and how you polled them and asked them if they would use it. Never rely on the RSL or AAD, they're backup devices! Also, don't change your decision altitude. Quote so what good is the skyhook if you aren't going to cut away low? What scenario provides a good reason to use the skyhook? I can't think of any, you will always be better off adding the reserve, right? And the skyhook could cause a problem when I don't need it, which happens to be my most likely cutaway scenario, cutting away high. Which brings me to my next point.. It helps you open higher, or would you rather be low, under an unfamiliar canopy, off the dz, at dusk? That little bit of extra altitude could give you time to atleast see how the canopy flies before you try to land it. It also negates any reserve pilot chute hesitation You can disconnect it any time you want, its as easy as disconnecting the RSL shackle. Quote The simpler your reserve system is the better. I understand a standard reserve, pull pin, spring fires, pc pulls canopy...I need to understand how the skyhook operates better before I'm comfortable with it. It hooks up too much shit to my last chance and there are lots of new failure modes that probably haven't even been discovered yet as it's still relatively new. SO, now you're changing your mind from you don't like it, to you just don't understand it? http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=70 Read that, watch the video. Quote I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Being skeptical is fine, but how long do you want a new product to be out before you will accept it? You mentioned you hoped it had magnetic riser covers, IIRC the skyhook has been out longer than the mag riser covers. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #12 February 27, 2011 Quote Unless I am thinking about changing my do not cut away below altitude to count on the skyhook why add failure modes and complexity? Granted I plan on getting some hands on explination from my rigger so hopefully I understand it enough to be comfortable with it but for now I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Fair assessment? What am I missing? Help me understand why you're relying on your audible to tell you when you're below 1k and should go straight to silver but you're not wanting to rely on the Skyhook because it "causes problems?" Relying on either is a mistake, IMO. So do you also not jump with an AAD because it too, might cause problems (AAD's have killed far more people than faulty Skyhooks)? What am *I* missing in this conversation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #13 February 27, 2011 QuoteQuote Unless I am thinking about changing my do not cut away below altitude to count on the skyhook why add failure modes and complexity? Granted I plan on getting some hands on explination from my rigger so hopefully I understand it enough to be comfortable with it but for now I'm skeptical, if it had been out longer and could be relied upon maybe not so much. Fair assessment? What am I missing? Help me understand why you're relying on your audible to tell you when you're below 1k and should go straight to silver but you're not wanting to rely on the Skyhook because it "causes problems?" Relying on either is a mistake, IMO. So do you also not jump with an AAD because it too, might cause problems (AAD's have killed far more people than faulty Skyhooks)? What am *I* missing in this conversation? +1 Spot he is missing the basics of staying alive. And the basics are not electronic devices they are your own awareness and actions. My first rig had everything you needed to survive but was not nearly as comfortable. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/FirstrigElsinore.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #14 February 27, 2011 are you bringing your lunchbox for your skydive there!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5kyd1vergav 0 #15 February 27, 2011 killer sweet news dude! im in the same position, just got atom legend,170 elektra and 140 techno..... so stoked but no1 in the outside world gives a shit! im with ya tho--- literally the best feeling of my life to date!! peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #16 February 27, 2011 Edited to remove incorrect info so it doesn't confuse anyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamMasterJay 0 #17 February 27, 2011 Quote-I don't need it above 1k. what about this "frequent shoulder problem" of yours? Quote-Counting on it below 1k is not recommended I agree. You shouldn't count on anything but yourself (as I've already stated)...IT'S A BACKUP TO YOUR BACKUP! Quote If the skyhook extracted your reserve in 99.9% of cutaways then you could rely on it and could lower your "safe to cutaway" altitude down to 300 or 400 feet or so. BACKUP... QuoteBUT...it isn't reliable enough to count on it. The thread above mentions a %15 failure rate which is probably high but there are enough stories on here of regular RSL deploys on Skyhook equipped rigs to make it a bad idea to count on it when you need it. BACKUP... Quote So those facts (if true, which is really what I am asking) really paint you into a corner when faced with a problem under 1k with a skyhook. Why are you so hell bent on this only being used when you're under 1k? I think this system has proven itself to be an extremely well engineered/working BACKUP.Truth is the distilled meaning of facts, for any truth refuted by a fact becomes a fallacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #18 February 27, 2011 The standard tried and true reserve system has been proven to work fine above 1K so you don't need a skyhook for high cutaways. If you have it you are in a way forced into relying on it low because if you don't rely on it and follow the recommend procedure which is straight to reserve... Your skyhook DOES effect reserve deployment when NOT cutting away in a slow speed reserve activation. The skyhook is inhibiting extraction of the freebag until your PC creates enough drag to break the TY-2A cord, which according to Bill Booth is roughly 25 mph, which is not likely survivable and that is when you reserve PC STARTS to pull your freebag out, you are still accelerating. "...above 25 mph, the reserve pilot chute will release the Skyhook and start to deploy the reserve normally. " -Bill Booth, Post 41 in this thread... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3346918;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; if I am reading it wrong let me know. The skyhook will slow down your freebag extraction when not cutting away from a partial canopy, which happens to be the recommended EP when below 1k, skyhook or not. You didn't address this in your post. Do you agree it can slow your reserve extraction? If not please explain what's wrong with my argument and if you agree answer this... If you ended up with a partial canopy at 500 feet would you cut away and bank on the skyhook working or go straight to silver and settle for a slower reserve extraction than you would have w/o the skyhook? I am concerned with using it under 1k because I won't ever need it up high, under 1k is all it is good for. A standard RSL or manual reserve activation is a simpler solution without the drawback (above in bold) and added complexity/unknown failure modes/increased possibility of rigging error. I don't have a shoulder problem, you have me confused with someone else. Let me know where I am wrong.. All in good fun, D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,373 #19 February 27, 2011 Hi drew, Quotethe red Ty-2A loop (the one that must break in order for your reserve bridle to pull out your free bag) Unless UPT has changed something since I last looked, this is just wrong information. If you make an emergency bail-out & go straight to your reserve, if you have a total & go straight to your reserve, and/or if you are doing a canopy transfer & just pulling the reserve ripcord; then the SkyHook has to break the red riggers tack thread that holds the SkyHook lanyard ( the red Type 2A loop ) to the 'hook.' These three scenarios do not require the red Type 2A line to break. I would suggest that you get a set of the packing instructions for the SkyHook & study them. Or get a copy & have a competent rigger explain the system to you. This is not to bash you; this is, hopefully, to educate you. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,460 #20 February 27, 2011 A skyhook isn't for you to think about. It's to give you a chance when you get caught up in fixing an almost-open canopy until you realize it's lower than you think. It's to give you a chance when you cut away only to realize that the T-shirt you decided to jump with just this once has blown over your reserve handle. It's to give you a chance when you cut away slowly because you took a hit during the skydive and aren't reacting too fast. It's not for everyone. But don't overthink it. Rely on yourself. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #21 February 27, 2011 two mistakes : type IIa is gutted 550 cord. The part that needs to be broken is the seal thread - much lower breaking strength (4.75lbs) your reasoning relies on an assumption that the speed the reserve PC neeeds to achieve in order to create enough force to break the sealthread is higher than the speed at which it generates enough drag to start lifting the freebag from the packtray. Considering the reserve canopy + freebag weigh more than 4.75 lbs, I think we can deduce that such scenario is unlikely. the skyhook uses single wrap of thread, page 26 of the manual : http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Manual/MAN_004___Vector_3_Manual_07_44_13%5B1%5D.pdf of course if you are in doubt - remove it, and don't worry about. as Jay say - it's a BACKUP to a backup. lastly, if you find yourself under 1K needing to deploy your reserve, you have entered the "oh shit" territory which you were never supposed to be in in the first place. After all, this is skydiving, not basket weaving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #22 February 27, 2011 Hi Jerry, I was presented with this info via PM from an experienced jumper. I don't claim to know how it works all, my apologies if I made it seem that way. I am only testing my understanding of what they were implying and throwing it out there for the community to confirm or deny. I chose a Vector partially because of the skyhook and just paid 4 grand for one that is on the way to my house when I was PM'd the skyhook info relating to another post. I would prefer any claims about the skyhook delaying a reserve deployment were wrong, which it seems like they are. With you and Wendy and Likestojump saying that the issue is not true I am very relieved and frankly feel bad for wrongly bagging on the device. I wish there was a way to delete the thread as to not waste anyones else's time with the misinformation. My apologies and thanks for chiming in with a technical explanation. D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,460 #23 February 27, 2011 Asking questions and listening to the answers is how you will learn. Really. That's how you gain knowledge. If you only ask questions where you think you have the right answer, then you won't learn much, will you. Either that, or you should start winguiting with a Go-Pro right now, because you really are that good Even if you came to the conclusion that you didn't want the skyhook, but for the "right" reasons, that would be fine. What are the "right" ones? Well, if you know how it works, know what failure modes it's designed to mitigate, and accept the risk, then it's the right one. Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #24 February 28, 2011 Quote Also not sure what I think about a retro fitted skyhook, not sure if I'll leave it hooked up or not. Clicky Learn from others. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
