Bolas 5 #76 January 17, 2011 QuoteQuotePeople don't deserve repsect, people earn respect. i dont agree with this. i give people respect out of benefit of a doubt. if you prove you dont deserve that respect, it is quickly withdrawn. i am in no way defending the jackass who is spouting off shit, and not disrespecting you in any way. Benefit of the doubt is not respect IMO. I agree we should give all benefit of the doubt, but respect is earned.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #77 January 17, 2011 QuoteI think pete got busted and came back as shitterMG. And as that Celtics85 or whatever guy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #78 January 17, 2011 I can't stand to miss out on the chance to be an asshole too! When I was a stoodint I had nothing better to do than hang around the DZ all weekend. I spent countless nights on the dusty hangar sofas, drinking 35 cent Stroh's firebrewed bohemians and listening to the assholes of the day. I hung on every word but knew better than to even attempt Cardinal Puff! They, in turn, watched over me like hawks. I didn't get away with a thing. Not even on a solo jump (they watched from the ground). I often got shit for stuff too and more than once was humbled miserably. Looking back on that time I recognize that being winded out as a student with my eyes always skyward at the sound of the cut, drunk and absorbing the gospel in the evenings, holding tension while someone flaked their round then sitting with them as they packed, etc were what made me learn respect. Respect for those gone before, those experienced then and those I would see in the future when my experience and situation had put me into a position as a leader. Now when I show up at the DZ it is often in anonymity and just as often I grab a solo student and ask "What are you doing? Wanna skydive?" One friend in particular always called me ASSHOLE. Can I still be one?!?! jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #79 January 17, 2011 Quote Looking back on that time I recognize that being winded out as a student with my eyes always skyward at the sound of the cut, drunk and absorbing the gospel in the evenings, holding tension while someone flaked their round then sitting with them as they packed, etc were what made me learn respect. Respect for those gone before, those experienced then and those I would see in the future when my experience and situation had put me into a position as a leader. Bravo. Newbies - read this. Except for the "holding tension while someone flaked out their round" part ... you can still do ALL of this; and even if you can't help someone pack a round, you can still hang out nearby and chat while they're packing the little pocket rocket you've got no business jumping anytime soon. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ufk22 33 #80 January 17, 2011 Ya, pretty much what dave said, but.... "Disrespect on the other hand can be earned." Also, what you just said.... Maybe if you were the FIRST fool, everyone would be easier on you..... Old saying, "there's ignorance and then there's stupidity" Ignorance can be fixed....This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgw 8 #81 January 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteEvery life deserves respect and should not have to "earn" it from self appointed superiors like yourself. Disrespect on the other hand can be earned. You have earned my disrespect time and time again Mr. Interweb instructor. That's really interesting. I don't know davelepka, chuckakers or diablopilot (who seem to be on the ASSHOLES list), I've never even jumped in their country. But having been jumping for a few years, and been on dropzone.com quite a lot longer than I've been jumping, I have a very short list of people whose posts deserve attention and (your word) respect because they have a strong tendency towards good advice, and an obvious, long-term commitment to keeping other jumpers alive. All three of those ASSHOLES are on that very short list. Just something for you to think about, whoever you are. [edit: It's entirely possible I Have Been Trolled. But unlikely as it is, it's also entirely possible you're serious. If you are, think harder. Also, skydive more, it'll make people's tone on forums seem pretty irrelevant.] Same here. I post little, but these three gents consistently offer sound advice, which I greatly appreciate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #82 January 17, 2011 I think there a several levels of 'respect'. On a human level I give most everyone I meet a level of respect until they do something to show themselves unworthy of even that basic courtesy. In the 'sports' world it's always been my experience that respect is earned...whether at a track, in the sky or on a field of play. It's a competitive world and even more-so in the sporting arena. It's why the personalities in it, are attracted to participating IN a certain sport, the competition may only be with ones self, but it's still there. We involve ourselves in sporting activities not just for the 'fun' but to measure our capabilities to an extent. That said, I find it ludicrous that some feel everyone should get a trophy just for showing up, and that I need to 'respect' a participant for no other reason than that 'they' feel they deserve it. In every athletic endeavour there is a somewhat unspoken set of parameters that are met, when a person 'makes his bones' so to speak. In Skydiving it's basically number of jumps and time in the sport...it's how ya work your way up the food chain. Like it or not, it is what it is. Participation on ANY level in Skydiving does earn/deserve some amount of 'respect', however if someone seems to be 'demanding' more respect than another feels they've earned...they just are not going to get it. ~ and in our little ego fueled, corner of the the the world...they will be told so in no uncertain terms. If you are on the receiving end it can seem unfair but my advise is to take it with a grain of salt and just keep motoring. We've all been through it...Crying about it just makes it worse. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Klassen 0 #83 January 17, 2011 You nailed it man. Fantastic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #84 January 17, 2011 low blow dudeLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #85 January 17, 2011 Quote low blow dude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #86 January 17, 2011 Pops hits one out of the park! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #87 January 17, 2011 QuoteI can't stand to miss out on the chance to be an asshole too! When I was a stoodint I had nothing better to do than hang around the DZ all weekend. I spent countless nights on the dusty hangar sofas, drinking 35 cent Stroh's firebrewed bohemians and listening to the assholes of the day. I hung on every word but knew better than to even attempt Cardinal Puff! They, in turn, watched over me like hawks. I didn't get away with a thing. Not even on a solo jump (they watched from the ground). I often got shit for stuff too and more than once was humbled miserably. Looking back on that time I recognize that being winded out as a student with my eyes always skyward at the sound of the cut, drunk and absorbing the gospel in the evenings, holding tension while someone flaked their round then sitting with them as they packed, etc were what made me learn respect. Respect for those gone before, those experienced then and those I would see in the future when my experience and situation had put me into a position as a leader. Now when I show up at the DZ it is often in anonymity and just as often I grab a solo student and ask "What are you doing? Wanna skydive?" One friend in particular always called me ASSHOLE. Can I still be one?!?! jon In contrast, today they show up at the DZ at noon, pay someone to pack for them, leave after a couple jumps and then go home and talk shit because people at the DZ don't beg to jump with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Klassen 0 #88 January 17, 2011 Well said man, there is a lot to learn from being humbled. Nobody likes being treated like shit but it does sink the learning in deep and in this sport it needs to be deep. I am new and know my place and give respect where it deserved. There is a lot to learn from assholes! I love assholes....enter burn comment here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #89 January 17, 2011 Well, it took everyone a while to get going. I see ya'll got there, though ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #90 January 17, 2011 QuoteWell said man, there is a lot to learn from being humbled. Nobody likes being treated like shit but it does sink the learning in deep and in this sport it needs to be deep. I am new and know my place and give respect where it deserved. There is a lot to learn from assholes! I love assholes....enter burn comment here. There is no reason to treat another like shit to humble them into learning. I was never treated like shit. I fucked up royally a few times and had some things pointed out to me as unsafe or at least unwise. I think the only time I was treated like shit was when my head got too big for my helmet and I let my ego overload my real ability. I deserved it then and can still feel the sting. I wish I could remember exactly who gave me the lesson so we could have a talk now. What he did was to give me a big fat finger with this look of utter disdain during a team picture that I was unaware of until I saw it. Man did that sink in. He was right on. I had been acting like a horses ass. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #91 January 18, 2011 Your post you are saying you don't have too treat people like asshole and in the next sentence you are say one of you best lessons was when someone treated you like one ??? I'm confused. Listen to the message not the messenger. You can learn from everyone.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #92 January 18, 2011 I stand by what I said. "You don't HAVE to treat someone like shit to get them to learn a lesson." I acted like an ass and was treated like one to get the message back across just what was thought of my attitude. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #93 January 18, 2011 QuoteListen to the message not the messenger We have a winner!!!! If you're after a BFF (best friend forever!) or someone to stroke your ego, don't look to the majority of skydivers. If you're looking for information about skydiving, then skydivers are your best resource. I do give all jumpers a minimum level of respect sight-unseen just based on them being a jumper. What that respect gives them is that I will speak to them regarding and answer questions about skydiving. I gave up on talking to whuffos about jumping a long time ago but I'm polite in declining to answer their questions, and if you're a reporter trying to talk to me about jumping, you can forget about the polite part. But if you're a jumper with a legitimate question about jumping, I'll give you my honest opinion on the subject. Can that minimum level of respect go away? Sure, prove yourself to be an asshole jumper, and there are plenty of them, and I'm not your guy when you have questions. If you're about to hurt yourself or someone else I'll speak up, but that aside, don't ask. Can that level of respect go up? Sure, when someone earns it. Show yourself to be dedicated, and that you think about things before you do them, heed to advice of others who know what they're talking about, and offer respect to others where respect is due, and you'll get more out of me than the minimum. The truth of the matter is that anyone who deserves my respect isn't going to bitch about the messenger, they're going to focus on the message. If you ask me about skydiving, I'm going to tell you about skydiving based on the information that I've spent my entire adult life compiling. If you can't recognize the value of that, and want to bitch about the delivery, then I'm going to immediately regret sharing anything with you, and do everything I can to avoid further contact with you. If you can see the forest from the trees, take the info for what it's worth without sweating the delivery, it's way more likely that I'll help out in the future, or even offer up assistance without being asked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #94 January 18, 2011 How many jumps do I need to get my asshole license? I want to play too. Asking to be spoon-fed what it's taken thousands of people many years, broken bones and spilled blood to learn is disrespect incarnate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #95 January 18, 2011 Quote How many jumps do I need to get my asshole license? I want to play too. Asking to be spoon-fed what it's taken thousands of people many years, broken bones and spilled blood to learn is disrespect incarnate. It is all in ratio to your canopy size and wing loading. And the amount of Mad Skilz you have.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #96 January 19, 2011 QuoteI think you get what you give. +1. Most people are not dicks, till they run into a dick. I'll admit I am quick to turn into a jackass when faced with a jackass. Ask people who know me and they will tell you that I will bend over backwards to help a new guy out... as long as that new guy is not cocky and will actually at least listen to the advice before they decide to ignore it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #97 January 20, 2011 QuoteThe truth of the matter is that anyone who deserves my respect isn't going to bitch about the messenger, they're going to focus on the message. If you ask me about skydiving, I'm going to tell you about skydiving based on the information that I've spent my entire adult life compiling. If you can't recognize the value of that, and want to bitch about the delivery, then I'm going to immediately regret sharing anything with you, and do everything I can to avoid further contact with you. If you can see the forest from the trees, take the info for what it's worth without sweating the delivery, it's way more likely that I'll help out in the future, or even offer up assistance without being asked. Amen.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #98 January 20, 2011 Quote ... as long as that new guy is not cocky and will actually at least listen to the advice before they decide to ignore it. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
colin2000 0 #99 January 29, 2011 QuoteQuote understand your complaint. Yes, sometimes certain more experienced jumpers are rude to beginners and their questions. While the majority of us try not to do that, sometimes we're impatient, and sometimes that impatience comes across impolitely. There's more to it than that. This society has changed, and it seems as if people need to fill their conversation with meaningless fluff. They seem to need a simple answer to be complex, and justification that they are "ok" and "accepted". Where as a "yes" or "no", used to suffice, now a person is offended if a lengthy dialogue answering all the questions they didn't ask is not forth coming. I think the art of listening has died. It's now socially acceptable for a person to ask a question, ignore the reply and then proceed to tell the questonee what they think the answer is. +1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #100 January 29, 2011 QuoteQuoteI think the art of listening has died. +1 Apparently the art of commentary has died, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
