Some things that will make you a better skydiver

[Nightingale 0]

That's exactly what I was trying to say! Thanks!!!!!

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Good post, Ron.

[Michele 1]

I have had some really excellent coaching from several wonderful people since AFF.

The way they approached things worked wonders for me. No yelling, even though I screwed something up, and it could've been a serious issue (like dead). This person chewed me out, but nicely, and in a way that I understood and learned from, and I thanked him for teaching me. Another instructor made it very fun to learn from him, and while I was laughing and having fun, I learned a ton.

There was no disrespect, no condensension, and no humiliation. I contend that we are all adults, and do not learn well when being insulted or humiliated. Who will I choose to learn from? That person who takes the time to deal with me, and teach me, not the one who tells me I am stupid at the top of his voice.

I am a very lucky person in that I have a dz that no matter what day I go, there is someone I can ask questions of, learn from, and rely on in sticky situations.

I am also very lucky that I have been taught some wonderful things by the best in the business, and they never once found it necessary to yell, scream, disrespect, or otherwise treat me poorly. I, like most students, will pay well for coaching, for instructing. And I will always offer a jump ticket to the person who refuses to take cash. I can just as easily - and with better results - take that dollar/ticket and go to the person who does not find it necessary to be rude, but who instead treats me as an adult.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[hookitt 1]

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#1 Realizing that you don't know shit, and probley never will.

Well actually, I do. I don't know it all and have no inclination to think I do, but I certainly DO know shit. There is always lots more to learn and lots to share. I do know plenty of shit, just not all of it, not even close. I'm pretty darn good at skydiving. Kindof the jack of all trades master of none. What I do know I pass on to others, and other people including the low jump wonders also teach me things I just didn't think of. I learned some very simple RW teqniques from watching a video of someone with 300 jumps and had 4-way training. Talk about a slap to my forehead! That simple technique eluded me for nearly 4000 jumps. (well, only a small portion of those were actually dedicated to RW)

----By the way, the word is probably...

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Which leads to lesson #2

#2 Skill in one area does not always transfer to another.

Agree...

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I am pretty good at 4way, but I freefly like shit.

Ah hah!!! that's but one thing we could trade info on. I don't suck at 4 way but I'm not dialed in by any means. I'm pretty well versed at freeflying but I'm no Rook Nelson.

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I can turn points better than a large number of AFF Instructors...But to let me do AFF would be dangerous.

Probably

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Before I did some freefly I walked up to the freeflyers and asked them if my gear was ok....now I know enough to know if my gear is ok...but since I was doing something new...I went to the subject matter experts for a second opinion.

If that's actually true, that's pretty cool.

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#3 You don't have to like the teacher to learn the lesson

While I don't disagree, if I don't like my instructor, unless I have no other choice, then I'd probably get a new one. Lets say I wanted to become shit hot at 4 way. If the approach just sucked or pissed me off, I'd still learn a little, but if I don't like the guy I'm not going to learn as much and I'm wasting my time and money.

Sugar coating is one thing , sounding like a dick is another. I don't think a person needs to be a dick to, very_clearly_teach a subject with out sugar coating.

I can very clearly get my point across that the ground approacheth on every single skydive, with out sugar coating and with out sounding like an asshole. If the point needs to be driven or I DO need to be that ass hole, then so be it. But only when needed.

I don't always like the way a lesson is being taught to me but a fair chance is given. I don't always present the lesson well either. Oh well. I've sent students to other instructors for that very reason.

This ain't the military. Drill seargent tactics only go so far in sport skydiving. Real drill seargants are for the people that chose to join the armed forces. Bully for you and thanks. I appreciate it.

You can still be nice and get the point accross. Be a dick only when it's necessary is respectful.

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So listen to the teachers even if you don't like the approach

This is applicable and I agree but some people are still going to break their leg to learn the lesson though. Even if the person believes you, no matter what you say, it's still going to happen.

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#4 As soon as you start to skydive for yourself, and no one else..You make a large step and become a better person.

Absolutely!

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When you stop thinking of yourself as a skydiver....And think of skydiving as something you do, not something you are...You will be one step closer to really understanding it all. And this includes gear selection and type of skydiving... If you buy a canopy because you like it, and not because its cool...you are well on your way.

I can agree with that. I've always done that with gear. As I grew in the sport I bought equipment that I liked rather than what every one else had. Keep in mind, that the person that had the fast parachutes was me, not the other guy.

I'm not going to include the 2 examples of people jumping parachutes cuz they like them. I see that all the time. I jumped my stiletto cuz I liked it. I jump my Xaos cux I like it. The old DZO with over 5000 jumps jumped a spectre. He tried lots of other canopies and liked them as novelties, but stuck with the Spectre.

As far as always jumping for myself? That was not always the case.

To Quade: Thanks for the link. That was some very good reading.
---
Whew.. that was long. Sorry about that folks.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Ron 10]

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I wasn't referring to this particular post, just in general.

Id like to take a second and talk about this.

This is a perfect example of a problem that you and I have been talking about.

You think I'm an asshole that goes around yelling information. But Im not....It is a back up when I am fed up. And instead of giving up I go to the last chance way of giving information.

Now...How that relates to this post.....

You and I on another thread had been talking about how people don't listen when the instructor yells.....A valid point even if its not 100% true. Different people learn in different ways. And sometimes it takes getting slapped (Verbally "What are you wanting to die!" or physicly "Keep your gaurd up!") to get the point accross.

But what you don't see with me is the many times I never have to go to asshole mode....As they say it never makes the papers.

Again how it ties in here....You brought that talk into a different thread (Which you have valid points)...However, your post here made it look like you have a problem with THIS lesson, not the other.

So you brought bad feelings and lessons from the past into a current lesson. And others not knowing about the other thread, thought you were being rude.

And as it is on here....People don't always know the whole story behind the lesson...Or the approach taken.

You do have valid points.....But I hope you can see from this example how I am not always a jackass (Well maybe) unless I have to be.

I still think its better to be an ass than just giving up. I have seen way to many people put into the ground to think any other way.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AntiPinkChrissy 0]

I just wanted to say excellent post Ron. I really like your posts because they are blunt and to the point. It is obvious you have years of experience under your belt and want to share that with others so we can avoid some of the mistakes that you have seen.

Some people here have referenced the 'drill sargent' instructor as not being an effective teacher. For me personally, if I don't like the delivery method of an instructor, I ignore the delivery method and focus on the message. My dad has the military type personality (he was in the Army for a few years), over the years I just learned to ignore the tone and focus on what he was saying. If you want to learn, I think that is necessary to do.

Chrissy

~La La Gang Member #2~

[LivingInClip 0]

I'm new and I found the post informative and true. Yeah, I annoy everyone I talk to about my jumping - but he has a point on accepting skydiving as something you do and not what you "are".

And there are some valid points. I know, I hated doin' my PLF's over and over...I hated being infront of people and trying to get my arch down - but guess what? I learned from it. You don't have to like the lesson, to learn from it.

I found the post direct, informative and all truthful.

[D22369 0]

Finally reaching a point of saying "dude, you're going to fucking die,
Guess what? That conversation drove the point home to that jumper (finally) and he's taken a lot of steps to listen to those around him and to get more training so he can do the things he's been wanting to do.

[TribalTalon 0]

hmm.. well i've had all kinds of different instructors so far, and honestly, i liked all of them. As long as i feel like they care about whats going on, and give me some kind of encouragement, be it "awesome jump, bro!!" or "Great job on not fucking up, maggot!!" i'm cool. Its when they just dont give a fuck is when i get turned off. I have a VERY good sense of humor and i'm not easily offended. I think this kind of persona is needed in the skydiving world, or at least comes in very handy. I'll always listen to what people have to say, i might not use their advice, but i'll always give them the courtesy of looking them in the eye and acknowledging what they are saying. But that's just me. *shrugs*

[rdesilets 0]

Ron, great post!

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When you stop thinking of yourself as a skydiver....And think of skydiving as something you do, not something you are...You will be one step closer to really understanding it all.

I was wondering if you could elaborate on what you mean by this. I think I get it but just want to make sure

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[jimoke 0]

hey ron,
my first time in this forum, and I will gladly buy you a beer. As I read your post, this strange feeling of de ja vue ........did I say this recently? did I write this post? what I was reading was how I feel.
It seems to be the longer your skydiving, the more you see. I have witnessed many accidents so far in 8 years and I don't want to see anymore......guess what? I will.

Ron? are you my long lost brother?

so how do we get through???? it seems your post was towards one guy

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I know a guy that had 400 jumps and got a Velocity 106. He was not ready for this canopy,

this seems to be happening at most dz's around the world. what is the method to correct this problem? restrictions? I don't think that will work. education? sometimes peoples personalities restrict them to hearing only what they want to hear. we all know these people. many are friends, which sometimes is more difficult to deal with.

I met scott miller this summer and learned a lot from him in one short weekend, and I wasn't even in his course. I wish I wasn't working with students myself.
his style of teaching is smooth and to the point, he was a professional at giving harsh debriefs.

watching and learning is something every skydiver should do. instructors need to do it well. you can only teach your students what you know, you can't teach them everything you know. time in the sport will have to help.

anyways good post........some peoples heads are thick and no matter how good their instruction (was/ or is) they will have to get hurt or worse.

stay safe
Oke

The ground always, remembers where you are!

[Ron 10]

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I was wondering if you could elaborate on what you mean by this. I think I get it but just want to make sure

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When you stop thinking of yourself as a skydiver....And think of skydiving as something you do, not something you are...You will be one step closer to really understanding it all.

Shakespeare wrote

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All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts

When you realize that Skydiving is a part of your life, that being a skydiver is one part you play not your whole life. When you see skydiving as something that you do, and not something that you are. Then you can have balance in your life...Balance in life is everything.

Funny enough, when you don't run around acting like you are a skydiver....Then you are one. When you feel like you have to tell people you skydive then you are not yet a skydiver...You are trying to convince people of something you are not sure about.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Luv2Fall 0]

"When you realize that Skydiving is a part of your life, that being a skydiver is one part you play not your whole life. When you see skydiving as something that you do, and not something that you are. Then you can have balance in your life...Balance in life is everything.

Funny enough, when you don't run around acting like you are a skydiver....Then you are one. When you feel like you have to tell people you skydive then you are not yet a skydiver...You are trying to convince people of something you are not sure about."

Agree 100%....well put.

[catfishhunter 2]

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I have seen people that that is the only way to get their attention, though.

then you should get to that point...not start at that point.

there is a guy at a DZ (that, for obvious reasons, will remain un-named). He's a really nice guy...he really is.
but his delivery sometimes...*sigh* You wouldn't necessarily know that he's as nice as he is because he's so....abrupt? Harsh?

He's military..and he takes his job very seriously, as well he should. But...just because you're new and inexperienced doesn't mean you're stupid. means you have yet to learn...and there's a big big difference between "yet to learn" and "stupid". Yet to learn simply means, "Fine..then TEACH ME!" This man has a *tendancy* to treat people like they are stupid....and that rubs some people the wrong way.

For me..as a newbie...it made me both want to say, "go screw yourself!" and yet curl up into the fetal position and want to cry. I found him very intimidating and he made me feel very stupid. He could have done the same educating in a way that was less intimidating, less authoratative..and I would have been more receptive to it. This man is brilliant...he made a comment to me that he LOVES that nobody thinks of him as a "skyGod", but the fact is that he's as much of a SkyGod as anyone out there jumping....but sometimes his message delivery is such that it stings and you're too busy licking your wounds in the corner because he just verbally smacked you down to actually listen and want to hear what he has to say.


If the drill-seargant routine is the only thing that some people will respond to..then it's understandable if you end up communicating to them in that manner.
but for the rest of us...it's counter productive (and not real nice) to start off there.

Funny thing about this is... YOU REMEBER HIM and WHAT he told you. Sounds like it worked to me.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Nightingale 0]

sounded to me like she remembered the delivery method, but she never said anything about remembering the actual message.

[elfanie 0]

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Funny thing about this is... YOU REMEBER HIM and WHAT he told you. Sounds like it worked to me.

Well...I'm so new in this sport, it's not like I'm likely to forget much as of yet.

but truth be known...if he wasn't someone that I respect as much as I do, then I might not have remembered as much about what he said. In fact, there were a couple of times that I had to sit and let go of my emotions and intentionally think, "What did he just say..?" Because this is someone that I respect more than anyone else I've met or talked to about this sport...

if I could pay him with half of my blood in my body and say, "Teach me what you know.." I'd do it...because I respect him and his knowledge that much.

but it's much much EASLIER for me to remember the message of my other much softer and 'nicer' jumpmaster (even when sometimes they are just off-handed comments rather than actually to ME directions)...
The other direct-to-a-fault one? I respect him..more than I could ever express...and because of that I make a point to try to hear everything he's saying to me. The delivery method only makes that more difficult...
for ME. others might find it totally different...

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[caress 0]

I really feel that Ron's post was to say in his way that the lessons that are being put before you no matter the delivery in which they are brought to you are so very important because as soon as you are let loose from that plane, other peoples lives are hanging in the balance as to how well you learned what has been conveyed to you. The one thing that my skybrothers asked of me when I told them that I was getting ready to go take my AFF classes(in Coolidge, AZ.) was PLEASE TAKE EVERYTHING VERY SERIOUSLY! They said that because they want to jump with someone who is safe, and is commited to staying that way for everybody who wants to enjoy this sport. On the same note, Elfanie and Nightingale are simply wanting not to be belittled by people that mistake ignorance for stupidity. They have a strong point as well. You shouldn't have to make someone feel bad to get your point across. Which brings in AggieDaves' point of only being an asshole when necessary. Thanks for such great reading all, I'm taking in all I can before I start my classes by reading whats right here.-Caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[Unstable 9]

Good Post Ron. I printed it off and put it in my SIM. Thanks...............

=========Shaun ==========

[feuergnom 28]

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When you stop thinking of yourself as a skydiver....And think of skydiving as something you do, not something you are...You will be one step closer to really understanding it all.

now that's something many people posting on dz.com should say as their morning & evening prayer
AMEN!

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[velo90 0]

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I listen to Tandem guys with more tandems than me.

Before I started doing video I talked to the video guys...

and I still talk the video guys after doing video. I also talk to video guys who have less video jumps than me.
Sorry to nit pick, but those two lines just sorta jumped out at me.

Dave
I don't know shit, and probley never will.

[saramorgan 0]

Simple things: always do your gear check in the same order, always touch your handles in the order you will use them/practice your EPs, know your gear, pack for yourself, don't let people push the fear they have on to you, take care of yourself/ speak out when you see something that doesn't look right. Never be afraid to ask a question.

[skreamer 1]

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Never forget that the ride isn't over until you are walking with your canopy draped over your shoulder back to the packing area.

No, you are not safe until you have walked off the landing area - keep your head on a swivel until you are well clear. Here is an example of what could happen when you are walking across the landing area minding your own business.

[bobsled92 0]

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Our sport started from a military background and I think it is still run a bit like that.
Parachute was made for fun jumps (DaVinci)and was not used in Military (they wanted proof of safety 1st) until the late '30s.
See... it's all about fun.
Keep having fun and be safe but, if it's not fun....(don't keep spooking yourself, like a friend of mine kept doing)

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

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[skreamer 1]

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When you realize that Skydiving is a part of your life, that being a skydiver is one part you play not your whole life. When you see skydiving as something that you do, and not something that you are. Then you can have balance in your life...Balance in life is everything.

I agree and for me the really cool thing is how much skydiving has motivated me to try other things. My next personal goal would be to learn to fly paragliders and then maybe one day even go for a private pilot's licence (for the love of God just don't tell Chris!). Becoming a skydiver opened my eyes to how much I could achieve and gave me the confidence to go for it.

[Ron 10]

This serves two things....

BUMP

And did you ever learn to fly?

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My next personal goal would be to learn to fly paragliders and then maybe one day even go for a private pilot's licence (for the love of God just don't tell Chris!). Becoming a skydiver opened my eyes to how much I could achieve and gave me the confidence to go for it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334