skydivermom 0 #1 August 6, 2005 Man, This skydiving career has been an eventful one so far. From losing a shoe on my first freefall to spraining my ankle on my first SL jump. Now after today I have yet another story to tell my grandchildren! I again hung from the strut of the Cessna and did a great arch. I flew the canopy and had an awesome time. Confidence level better than last time. Started my landing pattern and was doing great, and for some reason at the last 100 feet or so my brain decides to shut off. I should have kept on flying strait but I turned to my left and I have no idea why. I landed downwind but this time I flared correctly and put my feet in front of me. I had one of those slide in landings. Anyway, I knew instantly I should not have done that turn. The first thing my instructor says is "Can you explain to me what that was all about?" I told him I was asking myself that exact same question! I know that I should not have done that turn, but I still feel better because I KNOW I can do timed flares and land without hurting myself. Just wondering if anyone else has ever had a similar experience.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #2 August 6, 2005 Hey, Firstly congratulations on getting the flare right, i always mess that up! Least you didn't hurt yourself, and are ok.!Although i never have landed downwind , i just thought i would say well done and that i think it is amazing when someone can still smile Just thought id add that, Kind regards, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 August 6, 2005 Unplaned and unexpected low turns are killing more skydivers then just about everything else out there. I'd sit back if I was you and figure out exactly what made you do that turn. It very easly could have been the last turn you ever made. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #4 August 6, 2005 My goodness, that is very scary!! I really believe it had to do with my last two experiences in landing. I have sprained both ankles because of flares that were not timed correctly and not putting my feet in front of me. Now that I know I can do the flare right and not hurt myself, my confidence level has increased and I can assure myself and everyone else that I will not do that again, the low turn that is. God was certainly with me and I am grateful that I have another chance.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #5 August 6, 2005 Are you in a PLF position? If so your legs are not out in front of you, they are there with the knees slightly bent and ready to take the impact as you are rolling out the landing arcoss the entire body.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #6 August 6, 2005 I'm glad you asked this. My fears certainly come from my first two very hard landings. I attempted the PLFs the last two times and the instructor on my last one said it was a good one. This time I was so afraid of a getting a sprained ankle that I did put them out in front of me. I slid on my behind and got up without either ankle hurting. I'm not going to jump again until I think all of this out and the next time I'm going to talk to my instructors more. Could my first two hard landings have anything to do with the fact that I didn't have the best shoes at the time? I jumped today in athletic shoes and it seemed much better. I really do want to keep doing this, but I am a little shaken over what could have happened. I would love any advice you have. You can even PM me if you want to.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #7 August 7, 2005 Thanks Mike, Honestly I'm kind of torn between feeling so postiive and being shaken up over what could have happened. I want to have the right attitude and not get too cocky but not be too negative either. It's hard to keep that balanced. I tend to really beat myself up too much. Good luck with your training. I am also a student and can't give advice, but I can at least say DON'T DO WHAT I DID, IT COULD KILL YOU!Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #8 August 7, 2005 As phree said, turns near the ground can be deadly... But there are ways to turn that are more safe... Ask your instructors if you have not already learned some about "Flat turns". What I hear.... You are "over the line" on landing... Imagine a threshold of 1 being almost asleep while watching TV... And 10 being the feeling after you were in a car accident where your brain is doing "flight or fight." In our 4-way RW team, we are always looking at our "arousal level." I fly best at a 6. At 4, I am lazy and not "in the game". At 6, I am perfect. At 8 I have "information overload" and don't remember what I did. At 10, I don't think I could land at all safely. Now that I have thrown that scale out there, do you feel you were near 1, 5 or 10 upon your landing??? If you were real high, then you need to work on your comfort level with your instructors... They will have great ideas to calm and ready your mind... While I agree 100% with Phree that you need to work on this soon, the last thing you need going thru your mind on landing is death statistics as, if it was me, it would make me "over the line." And, not turning, using a safe method, also kills skydivers as they hit/land where they shouldn't.... Fear of turns can be bad too. So, work with your instructors to build confidence under the canopy... With confidence comes great things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #9 August 7, 2005 If you want to jump, jump... sitting around and analyzing isn't going to improve your landings, practice will. Pull and flare are the only really important parts of the skydive anyway...NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #10 August 7, 2005 an unexplainable toggle turn (how many degrees?) at 100ft is reason for concern, and not necessarily a good idea to fix by just jumping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #11 August 7, 2005 QuoteJust wondering if anyone else has ever had a similar experience. One in every 8 static line students? QuotePhreezone: Unplaned and unexpected low turns are killing more skydivers then just about everything else out there. Seems like a few people are willing to install the fear of god into you... I don't think that is appropriate right now. While it is true that unplanned and unexpected low turns kill skydivers, you should also know that in case of static line student the results aren't nearly as dramatic, most of the time. There's a gradual difference between 'pocket rockets' and 'student boats'. So, sort this out before you do any downsizing but under large and docile canopies you ought to be able to get away with this... If every student that did what you apparently did ended up in the morgue, we all would be in big trouble. I find it hard to remember one static line course where there wasn't at least one person who did what you did (IMO landing not exactly against the wind, seeing the ground slide underneath you and unadvertently stretching one arm 'in the direction the ground is coming from...' - and indeed, this results in a turn on landing..."next time stretch out the other arm please...") At my place most first jump students who do this usually not only survive but get away with only a few bruises... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 August 7, 2005 I am with Liemberg on this one. We frequently see S/L students doing unintentional panic turns near the ground. As their fear level rises, their brain starts telling their arms "do something," even if their mind does not have a clear plan. The secret to improving your landings, involves: A - talk your way through the landing pattern with an instructor before you board the airplane. B - after your last turn (at 300-400 feet) remind yourself to breath and wiggle your toes. C - satisfy your self that you are pointed at an open area. D - breath again E- shift your eyes to the horizon .. or far fence F - clamp your feet and knees together G - start asking your self "Is it time to flare yet?" H - wait for your (radio) instructor to tell you when to flare. Chances are, he/she will tell you to "flare" a second or two after your conscious mind tells you to flare. Try to remember the picture of the fence and horizon at the exact moment when he/she told you to flare. I - Keep your feet and knees together as you complete your flare, roll around in the grass and start laughing! J - Stand up, dust yourself off and congratulate yourself on improving your landing technique. In other words, if you have a little "self-coaching" routine running through your mind on final approach, your conscious mind will be too busy to panic turn. The end result will be a decent landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleBadger 0 #13 August 7, 2005 Not going on about the low turn issue which I think all agree is a No No, the landing issue... before you begin to think that it a better idea to put both feet out in front of you to prevent a twisted ankle how would you prefer to break your Coccyx? I good PLF may leave you a little bruised but shouldn't leave you broken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #14 August 7, 2005 Quotean unexplainable toggle turn (how many degrees?) at 100ft is reason for concern, and not necessarily a good idea to fix by just jumping. spoken by someone that talks about skydiving way more than he actually does it... go jump dude, when you get back up there you'll remember why staying current is a lot more important than replaying the incident ad nauseum in your mind. jump, if ya screw up, learn from it and move on... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #15 August 8, 2005 jump, if ya screw up, learn from it and move on... __________________________________________________ I love your attitude! That's just what I'm gonna do.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 August 8, 2005 I got 50 jumps in 2005. I'm not worried about currency. BTW, your kettle is looking a bit black here. > jump, if ya screw up, learn from it and move on... That's exactly what she's trying to do here. The 'screw up' already happened. But from what the instructors here said, maybe that's all there is to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #17 August 8, 2005 But from what the instructors here said, maybe that's all there is to it. ------------------------------------------------------------ What do you mean by this? Maybe your jumps are low to some, but you certainly have a lot more than I do and I value all the advice and perspectives I can get right now (from all of you).Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #18 August 8, 2005 find it hard to remember one static line course where there wasn't at least one person who did what you did ----------------------------------------------------------- See, that makes me relieved that I'm not just losing it...or wait....I've already lost it, I'm SKYDIVING! No, seriously, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one that has ever made a mistake like this. Someone else here made the point that this is the reason they give students such large canopies. Is it okay for me to continue flying big canopies until I am really, really comfortable? I think I would like to do that for a while.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #19 August 9, 2005 I had one downwind landing sometime just off student status. That was pretty fast and I slid it in then flipped over to my belly -- grass was tall and gave me a lot of friction. Did not get hurt, but added a grass stain or two to the jumpsuit. I was flying from a long spot and was too low to turn into base/final legs. The instructor pulled me over and gave me a very serious debrief about it. Needless to say, I never did that again (so far) and I fly the pattern so much better now, or favour the cornfield adjacent to the dropzone. (At least until the stalks are too tall, then it's the lettuce field behind the dropzone trailer park. Or whatever short plant that farm is growing ) I also check the spot before jumping out a lot more now. I haven't landed in those lately, but I will definitely aim for those if I have to. "The unexpected downwind landing checkout jump", it was. At least, I at least a better expect what happens in a downwind landing if I'm forced to for good reasons (Like avoiding a swooper coming dangerously into my airspace and I had enough altitude to flat-turn.) Anyway, listen to your instructor, don't listen to me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 August 9, 2005 hey - didn't want to imply you were at great risk. I remember some weird tunnel vision on some jumps. Just don't want to have many unplanned low turns. worst case scenario (late 2004) Jumper was making their first solo in an IAF progression. The jumper was headed towards the runway and some trees at about 200 feet. The jumper did not respond to radio commands to make a slow right turn for landing. The jumper burried the left toggle and completed approx. 1 1/4 revolutions before impact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #21 August 9, 2005 QuoteIs it okay for me to continue flying big canopies until I am really, really comfortable? I think I would like to do that for a while. It is perfectly OK! A friend of mine jumps a really, really BIG canopy, loaded less than one... He never flares on landing but always comes in at 'half brakes' with one leg stretched out and the other lifted up He's got some 6000 jumps. He won the dutch nationals several times in his discipline of choice which is (you guessed it) precision...(Moral of the story: "Hey, since you are paying for it, it is YOUR party!") "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
