AAD Brand Loyalty

[CHRCNF 0]

What are the thoughts on different brands of AAD's within the skydiving community?

Everyone at my dropzone seems to think Cypress's are the shit.

From all I can tell Vigil does more and gives you the most bang for the buck.

[brettski74 0]

Nothing on TV tonight? I guess this thread could provide entertainment.

Try the search feature. You'll find lots of debate and discussion about various AADs pros and cons, various malfunctions that have occurred with different units over the years and the implications of them. You'll also find a lot of pointless arguing over trivialities, anecdotes and personal preferences.

For the record, I have a Vigil 2, but I'm not entirely sure that I agree the design philosophy of the manufacturer, but they've improved over the years. I like Airtec's (ie. CYPRES) design philosophy better, so if I was buying a new device, I'd probably be changing away from Vigil, but who knows what will happen between now and then. Maybe they'll impress me some more.

[wmw999 2,446]

If I could go with a Cypres 1 I probably would. I would prefer an AAD that does as little as possible. Because then there are fewer failure modes.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Bertt 0]

Having worked with computers for a long time, I generally prefer the oldest computer and program that gets the job done. That's usually the one that has the bugs worked out. (Look how many people are still running XP instead of Vista or Windows 7. OK, bad example, but I hope you get the idea.)
As Vigil continues successfully on the market, my preference for Cypres diminishes. When my Cypres I expires in another year, I'm really not sure what I'll replace it with.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[brucet7 0]

I have none. My DZ stocks Vigils, so that was my choice.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[billvon 2,991]

>What are the thoughts on different brands of AAD's within the skydiving
>community?

Cypres, Vigil and Argus all work pretty well. The differences are slight at best. Not sure why people take it so personally sometimes.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Wendy,

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I would prefer an AAD that does as little as possible. Because then there are fewer failure modes.

IMO that would be the ASTRA by FXC.

Definitely a no-frills AAD.

Yes, I have owned & used an ASTRA ( used as it was on my rig; it never fired on me ).

JerryBaumchen

[piisfish 140]

I am loyal to the brand that covered my ass.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Martin86 0]

I'd say that the safest AAD would be the one that YOU feel comfortably about. As far as i know, all the AAD's have had "unfortunate incidents". Important thing is that you use whatever makes you FEEL safe. Extra features is nothing if you don't trust your device.

[AndyMan 7]

It took a very long time for Cypres to prove itself in the market.

When it was introduced, nobody trusted ANY AAD, often to the point where if you had one on your rig, you would not be invited onto the 'cool' jumps.

It took over a decade, but Cypres gradually earned the trust of most Skydivers.

Me, I'm a big fan of there being competition in the market, and I look forward to the day where Argus and Vigils have the same reputation as Cypres.

But, they do not. I continue to be concerned about both the number of incorrect activations, and the number of revisions being done to the hardware. Vigil is on its third version of the cutter, I think?

It's clear that both manufacturers are on the right track, but have some ways to go before they earn the same level of respect as Cypres.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[davelepka 4]

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but have some ways to go before they earn the same level of respect as Cypres.

Indeed. I bought a new Cypres 14 years ago and jumped it throughout it's entire life cycle to the tune of 4000+ jumps over the 12 years. No problems, no trouble and it's hard for me to argue with that.

[kkeenan 14]

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I have none. My DZ stocks Vigils, so that was my choice.

A real independent thinker, eh ?

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Herky 0]

Quote

Having worked with computers for a long time, I generally prefer the oldest computer and program that gets the job done. That's usually the one that has the bugs worked out. (Look how many people are still running XP instead of Vista or Windows 7. OK, bad example, but I hope you get the idea.)
As Vigil continues successfully on the market, my preference for Cypres diminishes. When my Cypres I expires in another year, I'm really not sure what I'll replace it with.

That's why the space shuttle was never updated. Only had 1mb of ram...I think they were using an intel 8080 processor chip. I doubt any of you on here were even nerdy enough to own a computer when the 8080 was out.

[chuckakers 425]

Airtec lost my loyalty when they instituted a mandatory life limit on the Cypres.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Unstable 9]

Quote

Cypres, Vigil and Argus all work pretty well. The differences are slight at best. Not sure why people take it so personally sometimes.

+1. Well Said. I've seen folks get very emotional when we are discussing AADs. I about saw a man cry once because cypres was so awesome and someone else said they wanted a Vigil.

=========Shaun ==========

[ibx 2]

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Airtec lost my loyalty when they instituted a mandatory life limit on the Cypres.

You do realize that electronics get old and their functionality cannot be guaranteed over a certain period of time.

Airtec takes the safe approach and limits the lifetime of the Cypres. To guarantee the safe functionality of a Cypres after 12 years they would have to essentially give you new unit.

Even the most sophisticated self test can not eliminate the possibility an error in the CPU. Aging electronics increase the risk of computational errors, increasing the chance of failure in whatever way.

[skydiverkeith 1]

Just remember, if you use any thing but a CYPRES, you WILL die!

The statistics clearly show that 100% of all non-CYPRES owning individuals will die!

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[Scrumpot 1]

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I doubt any of you on here were even nerdy enough to own a computer when the 8080 was out.

Wrong. I may still even have my TRS-80 tucked away somewhere, if I looked hard enough, in fact.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[wmw999 2,446]

Quote

That's why the space shuttle was never updated.

Actually it was updated significantly in 1989. Upgraded to 1 Mb of memory (although only the bottom 256K is directly accessible to I/O processing, and only the bottom 512K is easily accessible to processing), and the original magnetic core memory was upgraded to semiconductors.

The tape that loads the software for each flight phase was upgraded to a solid-state device in the late 90's I think, and its processing was integrated with more modern display capabilities in the early 2000's.

But I still want the simplest possible AAD; fewer failure modes to test for.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[theonlyski 8]

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Just remember, if you use any thing but a CYPRES, you WILL die!

The statistics clearly show that 100% of all non-CYPRES owning individuals will die!

I have hard evidence that ALL Cypres users will die.

Also have evidence that 100% of all skydivers will die, no matter what AAD you're using.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[millertime24 8]

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You do realize that electronics and their functionality cannot be guaranteed any time.

Thats more like it.

Muff #5048

[chuckakers 425]

Quote

Quote

Airtec lost my loyalty when they instituted a mandatory life limit on the Cypres.

You do realize that electronics get old and their functionality cannot be guaranteed over a certain period of time.

Airtec takes the safe approach and limits the lifetime of the Cypres. To guarantee the safe functionality of a Cypres after 12 years they would have to essentially give you new unit.

Even the most sophisticated self test can not eliminate the possibility an error in the CPU. Aging electronics increase the risk of computational errors, increasing the chance of failure in whatever way.

Yes, I do realize electronics get old. That's why AAD's self-test. Are you saying manufacturers that DON"T mandate a life limit are putting customers in danger?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[PhreeZone 20]

Which ones don't have a life limit? Airtec is at 12 years as is Argus and AAD Vigil is 20.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[chuckakers 425]

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Which ones don't have a life limit? Airtec is at 12 years as is Argus and AAD Vigil is 20.

Not so, according to the Vigil website. Note the word "expectancy".

The Vigil® main components such as cutter and electronic components are designed to have a life expectancy of 20 years from the Date Of Manufacture. It is a third millenium safety device with no imposed maintenance schedule (can be compared to airbag electronics in high class car which will only need maintenance when a red flash indicates the abnormal status).

Every time you switch on your Vigil®, it will start up by a complete check-up of the power pack, cutter and the electronic functions on which it needs to operate.

If one of those factors is out of set specification, the Vigil® will not switch on and needs to be returned to your dealer for inspection.

For your information we produce electronic systems used in industrial automations for more than 25 years and these are still in operation today.

Don't see anything in there about a mandatory retirement.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[likestojump 3]

page 5 of the current manual,
found here : http://www.vigil.aero/files/images/ENGELS___DP_JUN_2010.pdf

"The Vigil® is designed for a life expectancy of 20 years from the date of manufacture.
The above expectancy is based on the fact that the cutter, the Pulses Plus element and the electronic
components have been designed for a functional lifetime of 20 years."

page 33 of the same manual :
"• Life time: 20 years life expectancy"

Of course this can also read as the unit is not guaranteed to last past the 20 years, but it *may* :)