taking gear

[swoopfly 7]

If someone asked to jump your gear and you said no, and they took it and jumped it anyway, is that reason to get mad? Does it make a difference if it was the dzo?
just trying to see if i overreacted

[SEREJumper 1]

If you own it, you make the rules. The DZO was wrong and should have respected your decision.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[airtwardo 7]

I would be upset.

But then again, my gear is never left where someone COULD possibly use it without my handing it TO them.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jim_32766 0]

Unless you have otherwise granted permission, another person has no legal right to take and use your possessions. In addition, you may incur liability regarding their safety while they use your gear. I would have been upset.

The meaning of life . . . is to make life have meaning.

[Andy9o8 2]

You don't really say how you reacted outwardly, just how you felt. But, yes, you have every reason to be pissed. It's like someone borrowing your car without your permission, espcially if they ignored your telling them no after they asked. What if they crashed your car? In the same vein, gear is valuable, and a cutaway can always result in the loss of your main, etc.

Even more than that: a person's rig is sancrosanct: it's what keeps him from death. Nobody should touch (much less borrow) another person's rig without their permission.

A DZO who takes advantage of his position of power (if that's what occurred) is an undesirable vendor to patronize, IMO. I suppose whether to continue patronizing him (and/or how outwardly pissed you act toward him) might depend on how many other DZs are reasonably available for you to jump at.

[wildcard451 0]

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If someone asked to jump your gear and you said no, and they took it and jumped it anyway, is that reason to get mad? Does it make a difference if it was the dzo?
just trying to see if i overreacted

Short of beating them an inch from their life on landing, I would say no, you probably didn't over-react.

[727_Jumper 0]

is this a USPA group member?

if things when down like you said, personally, I'd report him to their ethics comity.

[billvon 2,994]

>if things when down like you said, personally, I'd report him to their
>ethics comity.

I think you may be overestimating both USPA's power and their interest in such things.

[skycamefalling 0]

Ask the DZO for a free jump. When he says no, go get on the plane anyways. Seriously though, I would be pissed if someone took my rig and jumped it without my permission. If there were damages incurred to your gear while they made a jump, the time and effort having to get it fixed and then paid for by the person causing the damage would be a huge waste of your time. But then what are the odds that they would try and say they did not cause the damage.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[fmmobley 0]

I would be furious

... Marion

[TSISK 0]

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If someone asked to jump your gear and you said no, and they took it and jumped it anyway, is that reason to get mad? Does it make a difference if it was the dzo?
just trying to see if i overreacted

Is the dzo a friend? If not Then F that he needs a talking to, I dont care if he runs the DZ or not... IT AINT RIGHT

[skyrider 0]

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Ask the DZO for a free jump. When he says no, go get on the plane anyways. Seriously though, I would be pissed if someone took my rig and jumped it without my permission. If there were damages incurred to your gear while they made a jump, the time and effort having to get it fixed and then paid for by the person causing the damage would be a huge waste of your time. But then what are the odds that they would try and say they did not cause the damage.

Score settled.

[chuckakers 425]

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If someone asked to jump your gear and you said no, and they took it and jumped it anyway, is that reason to get mad? Does it make a difference if it was the dzo?
just trying to see if i overreacted

That boy needs an ass-whuppin'!

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[davelepka 4]

Why did the DZO need to jump your gear, and why did you say no? The circumstances surrounding this would make a difference in the way I might react.

Also, how is it that your gear was available to the DZO when you were not there to control it's usage?

[rehmwa 2]

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Why did the DZO need to jump your gear, and why did you say no?

for me, it doesn't matter what his reason is for saying no

a person's private property is their own to do with as they wish. No reason is needed to be given - In general anyway.


now, we can posit that the DZO needed a rig RIGHT now to go jump into a closed area to diffuse a bomb before it blows up an orphanage and his was the only one available....... - and the OP just likes to see kids with burns just for the fun of it.

even there it's more a 'right vs wrong' discussion than a private property discussion....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davelepka 4]

If the situation was such that the DZO was qualified to jump that rig, and was in a pinch to make a back-to-back load to get a student up in the air, and this was the last rig left on the rack, I might have some more understanding for the DZO.

If the DZO had asked to jump the rig in a more casual circumstance like, "I might like to jump that harness/container", and the owner said, "I'd prefer you didn't", again, I could side with the DZO as this was a different circumstance that when the owner (barely) declined the request.

The other thing is, and I asked this, was why was the rig available to jump when the owner was not there to supervise it? Fun jumpers tend to take their gear with them, or put it in a locker when they're not around. Staff members, on the other hand, sometimes just keep their gear on the rack in the instructors room or video room. If this guy was a DZ employee, it would just seem odd to me that he would refuse the DZOs request to jump his gear. If I knew the exact reasons why, I could make a better assesment of the situation.

In terms of one fun jumper to another, I would agree that it's a 'hands off' policy unless given the direct permission from the owner. When you get involved with DZOs and DZ employees, who should have qualifications to jump and ability to care for the gear, I have trouble seeing why you would decline a request to jump your gear. It seems like there might be more to the story.

For the record, we have an 'open door' policy at my DZ among the staff regarding our personal rigs. Anyone is welcome to any rig if they need it, or even just want it. As long as the owner doesn't need it, and it's packed for when the owner does need it, anything goes. On busy days it's a huge help when you can do 3 or 4 back to backs in a row using TIs sport rigs, or gear of staff members not at the DZ that day.

[swoopfly 7]

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Why did the DZO need to jump your gear, and why did you say no?

I guess so the load didnt have to wait on one last rig to be packed, he didnt jump it personally but handed my fully ellpitical 135 to someone with around 300 jumps.

i said no because like someone pointed out, your rig is not just a backpack, its a sacred device which your well being depends on. Oh yeah and the small fact that it cost me thousands upon thousands of dollars. dont really feel like i should be just loaning it out, i mean i know out of all the scenarios it being returned in better condition than when it left is relatively low.

[davelepka 4]

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I guess so the load didnt have to wait on one last rig to be packed, he didnt jump it personally but handed my fully ellpitical 135 to someone with around 300 jumps.

That's different. If the DZO was jumping it themselves, and were presumably qualifed to jump the rig and care for it, that's one thing. I would have trouble refusing that type of request.

For them to loan your rig out to another jumper, regardless of who that other jumper might be, is not right. Add in that jumper being a lower time jumper, and your canopy being higher-performacne, and it's completely out of the question.

You should have been pissed, and not shy about it either.

[liftedtitan 0]

so what DZ is it?

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[wildcard451 0]

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For the record, we have an 'open door' policy at my DZ among the staff regarding our personal rigs. Anyone is welcome to any rig if they need it, or even just want it. As long as the owner doesn't need it, and it's packed for when the owner does need it, anything goes. On busy days it's a huge help when you can do 3 or 4 back to backs in a row using TIs sport rigs, or gear of staff members not at the DZ that day.

Is this policy in writing where you are going to pay for my main if you lose it on a chop?

I am glad you have an agreement like that at your DZ Dave, and I am sure that it works well for you guys. Our DZ usually the staff don;t mind loaning each other rigs if needed and compatible canopies, but they ask first.

As far as why the DZO needed it - who fucking cares. It's his rig, he said no. He does not need to provide a reason, and I would be hard pressed for you to find a justification that made it right.

[davelepka 4]

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Is this policy in writing where you are going to pay for my main if you lose it on a chop?

I am glad you have an agreement like that at your DZ Dave, and I am sure that it works well for you guys. Our DZ usually the staff don;t mind loaning each other rigs if needed and compatible canopies, but they ask first

In writing? This is between the staff, and if I wouldn't trust them with my gear, I'm not about to make a working skydive with them.

Essentailly you're saying you have the same arrangement at your DZ. We ask first, but only once, and at the beginning of the season. When the time comes that you need to borrow a irg, it means that everyone is busy, so instead of hunting down a TI or calling a guy who's not there that day, right in the middle of the madness, you just grab the rig and go. Well, check the manifest and make sure the owner is doing tandems for the next few loads and go, but you get the idea.

Again, this is among the staff, and all of us have been working together for years. There is a new guy with fewer jumps, and he knows that the rig with the 84 Velo isn't for him, but he's welcome to anyting appropriate to his skill level. In the end, it's all in the name of making sure that every tandem, student, and video gets done before sunset, so we work this way in the name of teamwork.

[skybytch 273]

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it's all in the name of making sure that every tandem, student, and video gets done before sunset

Instead of having to rush things at the end of the day, why not have whoever is scheduling tandems and students do a better job of making sure there are enough instructors and rigs to cover the number of passengers and students they schedule for the day? Looks way more professional to the passengers and students if they don't see their instructors running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to get everything done in time.

If you don't have enough time to pack your rig between work jumps, how much time are you really able to spend with the student? You're having to rush the ground training, rush the dirt dive, rush the gear up... What's the hurry? Tomorrow is another day. The dzo will survive if that one jump doesn't get done in time. By NOT rushing to make a load, you're showing the student that it's better to not jump sometimes. Is this not a lesson that we want new jumpers to learn without physical pain?

[wildcard451 0]

Fair enough.

[davelepka 4]

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Instead of having to rush things at the end of the day, why not have whoever is scheduling tandems and students do a better job of making sure there are enough instructors and rigs to cover the number of passengers and students they schedule for the day?

Got me, that's not my call. Every student with two instructors will have one of them working with the student before the jump, with no time contraints. The secondary, on the other hand, may be doing a back-to-back in order to make the load. Since they have another rig, there's no need to rush, just drop off one rig, grab the other and meet the plane.

Video guys are likewise. We have a non-jumping editor, so there's no hassle there, and if you have another rig ready to go, there's time to swap tapes/memory cards, grab a rig and go.

Single instructor students and coach level jumps are never conducted by an instructor/coach on a back-to-back.

It would be nice to have unlimited rigs, instructors and slots, but we both know that's not the reality of it. With a limited jumping season here in Ohio, rated jumpers are hard to come by, and those that you do have also have families and 'day jobs', so they can't be at the DZ all day, every weekend, all summer long. Even if you had mroe staff, you reach a point where it's too much, and then the rotation takes so long to come around, everyone gets 2 ro 3 jumps a day, and that's not enough to keep people interested.

The reality is that staff, slots, and rigs are expensive commodities. If you can get every tandem, student and video done by sunset, you've planned correctly. If you finish them all with hours of daylight to go, you have too many of one of them, and that hurts the bottom line. Again, this is a seaonsal DZ in Ohio, so in order to get everyone to work two jobs all summer long, you have to do it right. If the bottom line isn't right for anyone, DZO, instructors or video guys, you may not get them back next year. In the case of the DZO, that means no DZ. In the case of the staff, if you overstaffed to make it 'better' one year, you'll lose some of them based on the reduced work load per instructor, and you're right back to keeping the pace up until sunset becasue of a smaller staff.

[riggerrob 643]

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... If this guy was a DZ employee, it would just seem odd to me that he would refuse the DZOs request to jump his gear. .../reply]"

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If the DZO pays for my reserve repacks, Cypres batteries and new lines on my main every four hundred jumps ... sure he can borrow my rig any time he wants.

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