A disturbing PM I recieved...bad advice???

[jurgencamps 0]

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Last person I heard doing that forgot his leg straps and got an extra 30sec of freefall, respect the sky, you are dead til you deploy

I still don't get how you can end up not putting your legstraps on.

Loosened to the stops maybe, but not even on?

One day this (or something similar) will arrive to you to. The only thing you can do to prevent that this becomes an issue is to be sure that you will notice it before you board the plane.
Realize that shit can and will happen to you to. Just do everything to look for this kind of mistakes.
One of the biggest differences between having and not having experience is that you know that you will make mistakes, but also that you do everything to find them before they become a problem.

[davelepka 4]

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Why don't all you old timers who seem to know it all get together and formulate an actual system of instruction and evaluation rather than continue to beat your heads against the same old wall?

It's already happened, we came up with 200 jumps, did you miss the memo?

Are you suggesting that a jumper might be ready to wingsuit with 20 jumps? 50 jumps? You have a huge sitck up your ass with regards to the 200 jump number that has been established, but you seem to lack an idea for an alternate suggestion.

Any number you could pick as the min jump number for a wingsuit would be waaaay too high for some other jackass who thinks they know it all. Keep in mind that having 200 jumps doesn't mean your free wingsuit shows up in the mail along with your invitation to the wingsuit worls record attempt. Reaching the 200 jump limit means that you are now ready to be evaluated for yoru skills and being learning how to wingsuit.

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Distraction can happen at anytime regardless of your level of experience or adding new things to the sport. just be vigilant and never get complacent, check and double check the basic things that your life depends on.

Sure thing, but the more distrations you have, the more likely it is that one of them will triumph over your vigilance and fuck you right up the ass.

You already know what goes in to making a basic solo skydive. All of the factors, the gear, the environment, the weather, etc. Now add to that a dozen or more items to your gear check, the need for a freefall flight plan, the fact that you're about to jump out of a plane in essentailly a straight-jacket, the upcoming deployment while waering a straight-jacket, and the major distraction of being of the verge of flying a suit around the sky at 100+mph. Can you see how as the factors stack up, so do the odds against you?

Your point of view is understandable given your time in the sport. The journey seems short to those with limited view. In time your horizons will open up, and you'll begin to see the true scope of what's ahead of you.

The best analogy I can think of that applies to most jumpers is that of driving a car. most of us have been driving for at least a few years, and probably have a good grasp of that task. Now think back to your first year behind the wheel. Not the first month or two when you were still scared shitless, like when you were a student, but after you became comfortable behind the wheel. You had the windows down, the stero up, and life was good.

Now think back to all the times you went to adjust the radio, and drifted out of your lane. It happened to all of us. Now think about when you adjusted your radio on the way home last night. You managed to work the buttons and stay in your lane at the same time, no problem. Your ability to control the car, and time your radio work allowed you to stay in your lane.

You can take this concept, and look at all facets of your driving ability, and see how much better you are than you were after six months on the road. There's almost no comparison. The key now is to remember how good you thought you were at 16.5 years old. Back than you were sure that there was no reason you shouldn't be driving a Ferrari with a hooker in the passenger seat. Older folks may have suggested that it wouldn't be a good idea, but to you, with your frame of reference thought it would have been perfectly fine.

Do you see? Now you realize how bad you were at driving, and how the best bet was for you to pay attention to the basic skills, and leave the fancy stuff for the more experienced drivers. Now you can see the level of proficiency you have reached behind the wheel, and everything from your car control to your general awareness of your situation is elevated well beyond what the younger you could have imangined.

The problem with skydiving is that you never know what's going to work until it's over.

Can I jump in these winds? Maybe, you never know until you get in the plane and jump. If you land without injury, the answer is yes.

Can I jump this canopy? Maybe, again, exit the plane and see if you go home or to the hospital later that day.

Nobody can answer any of those questions with any degree of certaincy beforehand. Nobody.

Can I handle the workload of a wingsuit, and still be able to make good decisions and a safe skydive? Maybe, but nobody wants to find out the hard way that you can't. So we put a limitation in place that represents a conservative starting point where the majoroty of interested jumpers should be able to handle a wingsuit.

Some jumpers will be ready before 200 jumps, and some jumpers will never be ready, and there's no easy way to account for those people. It was left up to the masses to police themselves, and then a kid forgot to put on his legstraps. Before that there were dozens of flat spins, low pulls, close calls, and general mayhem, but the tipping point was the kid with no legstraps. The wild west had run it's course, and proven that it was not the way to go.

Let me save you some trouble right now, if you have a problem with the concpet of jump numbers being used as the metric for your advancement into expert level skydiving, quit jumping now. Everything fun you are going to want to do is going to be governed by your jump numbers. What you don;t understand now is that it's really the best, universal method for regualting the sport. There's no opinion or judgement involved, 200 jumps is 200 jumps.

If you can't deal with that, save yourself the heartache and get out now. If you can man up and deal with the reality of it, push through and toe the line for a few hundred more jumps, and as you apporach the other side of the coin, and shift from newbie to intermediate, you'll look back at the newbies and your time as a newbie, and the fog will begin to lift. A few hundred more jumps as you go from interdemtiate to expert, it will be that much more clear.

[freeflyit 0]

>>I’m not sure exactly what the point of this post is but, I believe I just want to hear what everyone else thinks about it. <<

Remind me not to PM you.

Edit: I'm not the one who wrote the original PM.

[chuteless 1]

I read your posting, and I think the guy who gave you the PM advice is right on. Think things through, and you will maybe try something a couple of times before you master it, but he is right....you will be led around the bush a hundred times by guys who think they are God's gift to skydiving, and no one else knows anything.

Do what the guy suggested...go for it, and dont let anyone tell you that you cannot do it.

It may take some time to become proficient, but you will get the hang if it. It really isnt rocket science.

I jumped wingsuits with no " instruction" from anyone except watching Burt Lancaster in the Gypsy Moths film, and although I didnt really enjoy the wingsuit back in 1965, I made flights which were stable, interesting, and something altogether NEW.


Go for it, and do what he says with USPA rules and regulations. Rules were made to be bent like hell, but not necessarily broken.

Bill Cole D-41 Canada


aka Chuteless #2 and #3

[skybytch 273]

You expected to receive good advice from people on an internet forum? How quaint, that's so very 2001.

[pirana 0]

Whoever sent you the PM is a fucking moron for being reckless with your life - especially so via an internet posting.

As someone said, the rules are written in the blood of those that have gone before us. Follow them and you stand a much greater chance of living to become one of the seasoned veteran instructors we learn from.

Follow the advice of the consensus of the seasoned veterans that actually know you and watch you jump. Trust no one single person's advice on matters like this. I say that not because veteran's in general can't be trusted; I say it because there are outliers (cough - D41 - cough) to watch out for.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[davelepka 4]

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I jumped wingsuits with no " instruction" from anyone except watching Burt Lancaster in the Gypsy Moths film, and although I didnt really enjoy the wingsuit back in 1965, I made flights which were stable, interesting, and something altogether NEW.

You're not that smart, are you? Not for jumping a 'wingsuit' in 1965 with no instruction, but for not seeing the bigger picture.

What was the statistic for the early wingsuit jumpers? 90-something percent of them ended up dead, so wingsuits fell out of favor (or might have even been banned to some degree). Of course, you were not one of the unlucky majority.

You went on to jump without a rig on, and countless other adventures back in the 'bad old days' of questionable gear and safety practices. Despite all this, here you remain, alive and well a lifetime later.

What's the conclusion? You are not the average bear. Most of the people who did what you did, or even came close ended up dead, but somehow you managed to pull it off, along with all of your other hijinks.

Not being the average bear means that the vast majority of people should NOT follow in your footsteps, and you should certainly not be advising young jumpers to do so. If you are going to make a reccomendation to a person you know nothing of aside from an internet post, assume that person is a slow-witted klutz, and err on the side of caution. To suggest your path is the way for others to follow is ignorant and irresponsible at best.

[steveorino 7]

My AFF Instructor (with 3000 jumps) asked to borrow my WS to try out. I told him my Raptor was not a beginner WS. He replied "But I have mad skills" No kidding, he said that! I told him I was an AFFI, TI, and PRO rated jumper with "some" skills but I wouldn't let my first "swooping" canopy be a 89 Velocity. He said okay and moved on. Some people never get it. Take your time and take your advice from Instructors at your DZ.

steveOrino

[Amazon 7]

Dave.... you have such a way with words

[Amazon 7]

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Whoever sent you the PM is a fucking moron for being reckless with your life - especially so via an internet posting.

As someone said, the rules are written in the blood of those that have gone before us. Follow them and you stand a much greater chance of living to become one of the seasoned veteran instructors we learn from.

Follow the advice of the consensus of the seasoned veterans that actually know you and watch you jump. Trust no one single person's advice on matters like this. I say that not because veteran's in general can't be trusted; I say it because there are outliers (cough - D41 - cough) to watch out for.

Hell I was just wondering how he managed to get "instruction" for a wingsuit jump from Burt Lancaster.... in 1965

[VectorBoy 0]

you are dead til you deploy

I guess you didn't learn much from our CRW training.

[airtwardo 7]

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you are dead til you deploy

I guess you didn't learn much from our CRW training.


...now THAT'S funny!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rapper4mpi 0]

In this sport there are many that are willing to give out well meaning advice. However, it is your job to decide if that person is qualified to do so. Ask them what their experience is, what is their skill level, how do they perform under canopy, in the air (if there is video to watch). And how well do you actually know them? Once you can answer all these questions and feel comfortable with them, you can decide if you should take their advice.

This is just a good way to protect yourself from those well meaning, yet unqualified jumpers.
-Rap

[skydiverkeith 1]

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I read your posting, and I think the guy who gave you the PM advice is right on. Think things through, and you will maybe try something a couple of times before you master it, but he is right....you will be led around the bush a hundred times by guys who think they are God's gift to skydiving, and no one else knows anything.

Do what the guy suggested...go for it, and dont let anyone tell you that you cannot do it.

It may take some time to become proficient, but you will get the hang if it. It really isnt rocket science.

I jumped wingsuits with no " instruction" from anyone except watching Burt Lancaster in the Gypsy Moths film, and although I didnt really enjoy the wingsuit back in 1965, I made flights which were stable, interesting, and something altogether NEW.


Go for it, and do what he says with USPA rules and regulations. Rules were made to be bent like hell, but not necessarily broken.

Bill Cole D-41 Canada


aka Chuteless #2 and #3

Let me guess. You're the jackass that sent him the PM?

I hope he doesn't get hurt. I hope you're not serious, and I hope he realizes that.

I thinks posts like yours should be removed or moved and isolated in a "Don't Be This Idiot Thread"

Its one thing to talk about something hypotheticaly, but quite another to outright tell someone to do it!

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[champu 1]

In his defense, getting from 50-100 jumps to 200 jumps takes considerably longer than finishing your vegetables so that you can have ice cream. And that takes forever!!!! wahhhhhh!!!!!!

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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***Just saw that you live in ____. I am in ______. Read my other message, and let me know what you think, and we can go from there.

I don't see where you live. It isn't filled in your profile.

Where exactly do you live? How did this guy figure it out? I can't from your profile.

[discovery4 0]

I don't see where you live. It isn't filled in your profile.

Where exactly do you live? How did this guy figure it out? I can't from your profile.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Was it from NippleBoy?

That's my guess.

Hey, thanks for bringing this up. It's cool, I think, that you posted the PM sans author's name. There's a lot of bad advice in this sport. Try to find folks at your DZ, preferably with the right ratings, to tell you what you need to know. Skydiving a lot of fun unless you get killed. Then it sucks.

[airtwardo 7]

Skydiving a lot of fun unless you get killed. Then it sucks.

Yeah...but not for LONG!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[chuckakers 425]

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....experienced jumpers forget their cheststraps all the time.

If that's true, ya might wanna reconsider who you jump with.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[fasted3 0]

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....experienced jumpers forget their cheststraps all the time.

If that's true, ya might wanna reconsider who you jump with.

+1 This is a preventable mistake. The worst case is not threading the strap through the buckle before stowing it under the elastic retainer. Don't ever do that! (Not you Chuck, I think you know better already.) Do it right or don't do it at all. Not closing it at all is easier to catch, for the jumper and everybody else. I make it a habit to check my chest strap as I'm getting on the plane; just a quick rub down my chest will reveal if it is on, and no need to make sure it's routed properly at that time because if it's done up at all, I know it's done up right.
As for the original subject, I would not worry too much about it. People can give me any advice they want; I don't have to take it.

But what do I know?

[obelixtim 150]

For all the young budding experts out there who think the old timers are just trying to hold you back and prevent you having such fun, here's something for you to do.

Next time one of these oldies has to go and deal with a mess of raspberry jam splashed across the DZ, ask to accompany them.

You'll find scraping smartarse ex skydivers off the ground isn't much fun at all. As an "oldie" its not something I go to the DZ to do, but its happened a few times, and I can tell you that the reality of a smashed body will perhaps make you appreciate that experienced jumpers are not talking out of their arse.

There is plenty of time to do what you want to do in skydiving.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[JohnMitchell 16]

Good post. Tough thing to say, but I'm glad you said it.

When a new, impatient young jumper asks "What could possibly go wrong?", those who have filled out a USPA 30-1 form might have a few things to say.

[93zx11 0]

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Let me guess. You're the jackass that sent him the PM?

I hope he doesn't get hurt. I hope you're not serious, and I hope he realizes that.

Its one thing to talk about something hypotheticaly, but quite another to outright tell someone to do it!

No actually, I am.

I hope he doesn't get hurt as well, which is why I said take my advice with a grain of salt.

Let the flame war begin. I will stand behind my advice.

[JohnDeere 0]

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Let me guess. You're the jackass that sent him the PM?

I hope he doesn't get hurt. I hope you're not serious, and I hope he realizes that.

Its one thing to talk about something hypotheticaly, but quite another to outright tell someone to do it!

No actually, I am.

I hope he doesn't get hurt as well, which is why I said take my advice with a grain of salt.

Let the flame war begin. I will stand behind my advice.

You will stand behind that blank profile....
If you really didnt want him to get hurt you wouldnt have given him such stupid advise!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!