Sportbike rider/canopy pilot parallels

[Squeak 17]

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Insurance rates for this bike is $1200 less -minimum- then any sport bike.

Ummm....where is your insurance through? Full coverage is under $200 per year for our CBR600RR.

$200 for a full blown sports bike Geez that's CHEAP as. Is that fully comprehensive insurance or just 3rd party/theft?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[kelpdiver 2]

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I did say a lot. Care to point out which part was not valid?

The notion that increasing speed is often a good solution for traffic issues is suspect, and that doing it on the freeway is likely to unintentionally lead to a wheelie is ridiculous. Squids crash in the hills and while speeding on city streets, not on open, straight, one way highways.

As for bike choice, I'd take the SV650 over the Katana for a first timer - bodywork is expensive even if you tip over in the parking lot. To me, the biggest knock against the race replicas is that they offer terrible comfort, at least for a 6 footer. That part seems as dangerous as the motor size. A new rider shouldn't go with anything they have to contort their body to sit on.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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$200 for a full blown sports bike Geez that's CHEAP as. Is that fully comprehensive insurance or just 3rd party/theft?

$240.00/year for comprehensive ($500 detuctable) including $1000 for accessories. This is for a new 2004 CBR 600RR.

Derek

[RogerRamjet 0]

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I did say a lot. Care to point out which part was not valid?

The notion that increasing speed is often a good solution for traffic issues is suspect, and that doing it on the freeway is likely to unintentionally lead to a wheelie is ridiculous. Squids crash in the hills and while speeding on city streets, not on open, straight, one way highways.

As for bike choice, I'd take the SV650 over the Katana for a first timer - bodywork is expensive even if you tip over in the parking lot. To me, the biggest knock against the race replicas is that they offer terrible comfort, at least for a 6 footer. That part seems as dangerous as the motor size. A new rider shouldn't go with anything they have to contort their body to sit on.

While I'm not out to defend anyones choice in "starter" bikes here, I do agree that power, brakes, and handling are assets on a street bike. I rode for 13 years, 7 of those years I had no car so that's the only way I got from one place to another. I can remember more than one instance of using the bikes power rather than brakes to avoid being squashed. 3/4 of the way past a semi and he decides to change into my lane, I hit the gas...

My first bike was a 750 (1976 CB750F Honda). My brother who had been riding for years recommended that bike as my starter bike because it had decent power, decent handling and above all was big enough to be seen. He took me to a high school parking lot and tought me about starting, stopping, and turning the machine. Most important of those was the proper use of the front brake. I'm sure I lasted as long as I did because of that. In those days the brakes were four finger things that required a ton of pressure and the engine power was "light" compared to even a sport touring 650 today. 3 years later I bought a CBX, the first street bike in the world with 2 finger racing front brakes. I took it opon myself to return to the parking lot and learn how to modulate them which also contributed to my longevity I think. Today, the front brakes on these machines will allow the rider to lift the rear right off the ground and would, in my opinion, require even more training (at least for me) to keep myself safe.

It's an interesting delema. I believe the statistics at the time showed that the vast majority of accidents (involving another vehicle) were on 350cc and smaller bikes which is why my brother wanted me to start on a (large visible) 750. However, the 650 and up bikes of today have vastly more power (and brakes) than what I started on and could certainly get you in over your head very quickly.

BTW, in those 13 years, I rode 10 without incident and fell off twice in the last three years, both times on open, straight, one way highways (oil slick for one, rail road dip for the other).... and I was a "sport" rider. I was the only CBX rider that ordered replacement footpeg feelers at the local Honda shop because I had worn them off.

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Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[goose491 0]

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The notion that increasing speed is often a good solution for traffic issues is suspect, and that doing it on the freeway is likely to unintentionally lead to a wheelie is ridiculous.

-Sometimes it's better to power out of a pintch then to simply hit the breaks... untrue?

-Unintentional wheelies can result from quick throttle application on a bike which is too powerful for your experience level.... ridiculous?



Be careful discrediting information simply because it comes from a relative newbie. We're trying to discourage new riders from buying Busas not tell them the issues related to this are... ridiculous.

I wasn't saying unintentionall wheelies are an acceptable, regular occurrence. Someone said they'd let their friend buy a sport bike over 600cc as a first and justified it by saying you don't have to go fast if you don't want to. I was merely stating that while this might be true, there are some situations where you will have to hit the throttle quickly and if you have too much bike under you for your experience level, you may end up on one wheel.

You are willing to tell me what I say is wrong simply because it's my first year on the street. What I typed is NOT untrue, it's one of the major reasons why I agree with the article.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[hookncrater 0]

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-Unintentional wheelies can result from quick throttle application on a bike which is too powerful for your experience level.... ridiculous?

Yes, that is ridiculous. If you are driving down the highway, 95% of the time you will be in either one of your top two gears. There are no production motorcycles that can power wheelie in 5th or 6th gear without heavy mods. Unless you are driving around in a low gear with the engine already in the peak of the powerband, you aren't going to be able to loft the front wheel off the ground, and even if you were, I'd categorize that as intentional. Go ahead and try it all you want, but I'm betting that 90% of the motorcycles or more won't do anything more than unload the front suspension a bit in gears 4-6 and perhaps cause some headshake if you have it healed over. Plus, with experience you will learn to shift more of your body weight over the front of the bike during a corner exit or rapid throttle change which keeps the front wheel firmly planted.

________________________________________________________________________________
when in doubt... hook it!

[goose491 0]

This is where nit-picking becomes a bit of a safety issue.

We were still talking about someone buying a bike which was far too powerful for their experience level and justifying it by saying they wouldn't go too fast on it.

-I can see that as meaning someone that is in a lower gear than should be, thinking this will help.

-I can see that as meaning someone that doesn't shift their weight properly, not having developped enough of a feel for it.

-I can see that as meaning someone that is cruising around at what they consider a safe speed, not realising that a quick application of the throttle can make their bike seem squirly underneath them... the poor thing is only doing what they told it to do!

So take my example off the highway. I guess you're right, at top speeds, it's just not possible to make a nice, award-winning wheelie. But just make it clear that it's the word "Highway" that you are discrediting. Or take away the word "wheelie" if you like and substitue "apparent squirlyness" lol.

... just don't make it sound like a whole heap-load of extra power isn't a problem when you grab a handful of throttle in a pinch and don't have the experience and nerves to do it right!

My simple, truthful point: Buying a bike too powerful for you ins't exhonnerated by just "gowing slower" and "going slower" won't save you from what happens if you are young and a little twitchy with your controls when you need to act quickly.

My appoligies for using the words "One wheel" for now it has taken 4 posts to make this simple point. My Gawd!

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Hooknswoop 19]

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... just don't make it sound like a whole heap-load of extra power isn't a problem when you grab a handful of throttle in a pinch and don't have the experience and nerves to do it right!

I didn't have thaty Katana 600 very long when the throttle got me in trouble, I couldn't let off the throttle because I had to hang on. The bike was accelerating and I couldn't roll off the throttle without falling offf the bike.

Faster bikes are more dangerous than smaller bikes.

New riders should not buy bigger bikes. They should rely on others with experience to tell them what maximum size to get because they have no experience to make that choice for themselves.

Smaller canopies are more dangerous than larger canopies.

New skydivers should not buy smaller canopies. They should rely on others with experience to tell them what size to get because they have no experience to base that choice on for themselves.

There are differences between bikes and canopies, but the issues are very similar. A lot of people want too much performance too soon.

Derek

[kelpdiver 2]

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-Sometimes it's better to power out of a pintch then to simply hit the breaks... untrue?

-Unintentional wheelies can result from quick throttle application on a bike which is too powerful for your experience level.... ridiculous?

It is the exception rather than the norm to need speed to get out of a jam. It suggests a lack of foresight, and you're now increasing your kinetic energy right at a moment of crisis. Blow it, and you've increased your pain.

As for rolling on a little throttle because the guy next to you seems interested in lane changing - easily done, while shifting to the far side of the lane, and any street bike can do it, even in top gear. If you really needed more top end power to pull it off, you probably should have braked instead.

As explained to you, freeway wheelies are intentional acts. If you have to go to a Busa for your explanation, you've lost it.

[billvon 3,000]

>but the issues are very similar. A lot of people want too much
>performance too soon.

The justifications seem to be very similar as well!

"I'll be careful."
"Speed is your friend; I don't want to end up backing up in a 30kt wind!"
"I don't want to have to buy another canopy."
"Only an idiot will turn too low/not flare/not land into the wind."
"More performance actually makes you safer if you're competent - and I'm not incompetent."
"Yeah, I jumped a tiny canopy and did great, but no one else should."

[hexadecimal 0]

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$240.00/year for comprehensive ($500 detuctable) including $1000 for accessories. This is for a new 2004 CBR 600RR.

Derek

Wow...

How did you pull that off??? Which insurance company?

I'm paying almost 3x that amount for liability on a '96 CBR600F3!

[goose491 0]

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It is the exception rather than the norm to need speed to get out of a jam. It suggests a lack of foresight

Lack of foresight or not (And I'll take the collective words of the team of motorcycle safety instructors at humber college over yours), it is not the point.

Here is RogerRamjet's quote: <>

Again, lack of fosesight or not, the consequences of the above-example, given a little scare and a bike too powerful for ones experience, can be far worse than those on a bike of relatively lesser power.

Is that okay by you? Because your posts so far are VERY counter-productive to the entire "buy a reasonable sized bike as a starter" argument and so far, it is only because you feel I'm speaking without enough experience.

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If you have to go to a Busa for your explanation, you've lost it.

You see? Are you suggesting that a Busa is a good starter bike? My example used one because I DON'T.



Edited to add: The point I was trying to make, -now buried by KelpDivers expanation of what a wheelie is- was:

"I just won't go so fast at first" is not a good remedie for buying yourself an extremely powerful sportbike as a starter.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Deuce 1]

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$240.00/year for comprehensive ($500 detuctable) including $1000 for accessories. This is for a new 2004 CBR 600RR.

Derek

Wow...

How did you pull that off??? Which insurance company?

I'm paying almost 3x that amount for liability on a '96 CBR600F3!

Um, total coverage with Farmer's for my 2001 K1200RS is less than $300 ($296.90?). One of the perks of getting old and having a long riding record.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Here is RogerRamjet's quote: <>

Again, lack of fosesight or not, the consequences of the above-example, given a little scare and a bike too powerful for ones experience, can be far worse than those on a bike of relatively lesser power.

You probably should have noted the part where he said he had been riding for a decade. "More than one instance" over that span isn't a very frequent event. Semi's don't change lanes on a dime either - a car that was 3/4s of the way past could also get clear. I myself lanesplit past trucks (one, not in between two of them) all the time.

It has little to do with the dangers of riding over your head on a fast bike. The only time I hear about these fellows biting it on the freeway is while being chased by the cops at 100+ until they smack into the back of something. If you ride like a dumbass, you may pay the price. But likely it will be on Skyline, drifting over the yellow because you can't hold your line. Hopefully you won't take someone out in the process.

I'm not sure what you're arguing now - that gas is a good saving technique, or that too much power is dangerous. I find those a bit contradictory.

Bringing it back on subject - riders are at greatest risk after 6-12 months. Much like jumpers after 100 (?) jumps, they start getting too comfortable in their knowledge of the risks. And they start upgrading bikes, or thinking they know it all. Sometimes they find out otherwise. Hope that's not you.

[Deuce 1]

I dropped my Katana 1100 after almost 10 years due to grabbing too much front brake and high-siding under an 18 passenger van.

One of the main reasons for buying the new K1200RS is the new interlocking antiilock brake system.

Whatever kind of panic stab you make at the rear or front brake is translated into Kenny Roberts kind of perfect front and back application which stops the bike like witchcraft.

It is absolutely fabulous, and nobody does not like the anti lock. It gets way past stupid-ass before it kicks in, and then it's like pulling a quarter out of a kids ear.