Should you be charged for making a saftey call, and not jumping?

[allisongandy 0]

There has been some recent discussion at my dz regarding jumpers being charged for a jump if you, for whatever reason, decide not to jump. Our DZO has decided to enforce this policy starting in the next week or so. I can see the DZO's point, it still costs him to send you up, and i agree that that is unfair if you forgot something and dont jump, or if the conditions were the same on the ground. However, if you make a decision at altitude because of changing conditions, should you be charged for the jump? In my case specifically, Ive only got about 110 jumps, and I am fairly reserved under canopy, and I went up for a jump yesterday, and from the ground everything looked fine, and when i got to altitude, the plane was being thrown around by more turbulence than i've ever experienced before. I didnt know if the lower winds had changed and were doing the same, and I didnt feel ok jumping in such conditions Because of this, me and another jumper decided not to jump. When i get down, i find the DZO is trying to charge us for the jump for making that call. As i said, I can see him charging for it if the conditions were already very turbulent on the ground and I decided to try to jump anyways, or if i forgot my goggles and alti or something, but that was not the case. In fact, when we got to the ground, a few very experienced skydivers congratulated us on making a smart call. Any input on this? Just looking for some opinions on the matter, and whether I should be penalized for making a safety call for myself and the less experienced person I was jumping with.

[hyperslug 0]

You pay for the plane ride, not the jump.

[Jbag 0]

IMO, you are not paying to jump, you are paying for the chance to jump, why should the dzo have to cover the cost if you asked him for a ride,

If you offered a friend $20 for a ride to the store, but when you got there didn't want to go in, would you not give him the $?

Good on you for not jumping though

IHYD

[BIGUN 1,297]

The skydive is free, you're paying for the plane ride up.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[vpjr 18]

The Fall is Free, The plane ride is expensive. If you dont believe me, Buy your own plane, then see what your rides to alt realy cost. A $25 airplane ride is cheap. Do I sound bitter after loosing $12k on a Sat. load 2?

[allisongandy 0]

This is very true. I definitely see the DZO's point, and yours, its not his call whether we jump or not. I just feel like this is almost discouraging people from making smart decisions. Regardless, I will make safety calls based on what I feel is right for me, it just sucks getting charged almost 40$ for it. Another concern of mine is that other people might not make a smart decision because of the money factor, and look at the same situation and go 'holy crap its really turbulent.. oh well' and jump anyways, and thats when accidents can happen, but i guess thats their own fault lol

[allisongandy 0]

Haha, you do, but I see your point!

[brettski74 0]

You should count yourself lucky that there's even a chance of the DZ covering the plane ride if you choose not to jump. You're a trained skydiver. You have eyes and other senses to see what's going on before you ever get on the plane. You can see if there's weather moving in. You can see if winds are getting sketchy. In the case of forgetting something, who's fault is that if not yours?

As has already been said, you are not paying to jump. Jumping is free. You are paying for the ride to altitude. You will find few dropzones that will cover a fun jumper's slot due to weather or any other issues for not jumping. At most places, if you get on the plane, you're paying for your slot. In fact, at most places, if you're on the load sheet at the gear up and go, you're paying for your slot. The safety call you made to protect your life. You only get one of them. The safety call had nothing to do with the $38 you'd already spent to get to altitude.

Brettski :)

[muff528 3]

Yep.... you pay for the ride up. If you decide not to jump you will get a free ride down. If the DZ decides to start charging you for that you might then have a legitimate complaint.

[billvon 2,989]

>and whether I should be penalized for making a safety call for myself
>and the less experienced person I was jumping with.

You're not being penalized. You paid for the ride up. You didn't get charged any more for your decision not to jump than you would have been for jumping.

This is pretty common. When the weather is turning bad they remind everyone of this over and over at Perris - "you pay for the highest altitude you reached."

[brettski74 0]

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I just feel like this is almost discouraging people from making smart decisions.

Like I said before, a safety call is made to protect you from injury or worse. If the $38 slot is worth more to you than not jumping to avoid injury, you don't sound very smart to me.

[allisongandy 0]

Well as i said, i obviously wont jump if i dont think its safe, regardless of the money. I was just unsure if this was common everywhere. Apparently it is, and i guess my dz is just enforcing this rule a little late. Thanks for the feedback!

[brettski74 0]

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Well as i said, i obviously wont jump if i dont think its safe, regardless of the money.

Yeah - I saw that, but I was meaning "you" in the figurative sense, not literally you. Stay safe.

[allisongandy 0]

Gottcha :) Thanks for the advise any how.. Still pretty new to the sport, and im not sure what the rules are at other dz's. Even if youve jumped else where, you dont always get a good idea for what the protocol is with some situations :)

[MBiegs 0]

Being safe is one thing, but landing with the plane is scary shit!

I got to experience that for my first time last year when we could only get to 2500 feet on a hopnpop run. Being on my A license I didn't jump. 3 of us went up, 1 jumped, 3 were charged.

I'm guessing that it costs more in fuel when you don't jump, so you're getting the trip down for free.

[allisongandy 0]

Good to know! Apparently being charged regardless is pretty common and i should get used to it haha
and i agree, I hate landing with the plane.. so unnatural lol

[brettski74 0]

Yeah - most aircraft accidents involve the plane hitting the ground, so thank for the ride up Mr Bus Driver, but I'll make my own way back down.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

They should charge you $15 for the ride down.

[rehmwa 2]

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They should charge you $15 for the ride down.

You pull that number out of thin air?

It takes more fuel to land with a load of people vs an empty plane. So cutting a deal for not jumping is above what's necessary. YOu pay for the slot - jump or ride.

So charging less for riding down is a very decent thing for a DZO to do but doesn't fall under "should".

But if this guy is paying "nearly $40" then he's getting charged for gear rental too. I think that's pretty crappy of the DZO. It wasn't cycled, nor does it need to be packed.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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There has been some recent discussion at my dz regarding jumpers being charged for a jump if you, for whatever reason, decide not to jump.

You're paying for time on the plane (engine(s), propeller(s), airframe), fuel, and pilot. Jumping (or not) has almost no effect on the DZO's operating costs and you should expect to be charged.

[allisongandy 0]

Sounds like this is pretty common everywhere and my dzo has been nice about not charging up till now. Guess this is standard and Ill have to get used to it :)

[allisongandy 0]

We're actually paying $35 for 10,5 and $38 for 12,5. I have my own gear, that doesnt include anything but the ride to altitude. If you want to include rental gear, your looking at 50$ and the students usually pack it themselves

[Inspired 0]

Quote

Quote

They should charge you $15 for the ride down.

You pull that number out of thin air?

It takes more fuel to land with a load of people vs an empty plane. So cutting a deal for not jumping is above what's necessary. YOu pay for the slot - jump or ride.

So charging less for riding down is a very decent thing for a DZO to do but doesn't fall under "should".

But if this guy is paying "nearly $40" then he's getting charged for gear rental too. I think that's pretty crappy of the DZO. It wasn't cycled, nor does it need to be packed.

I think he meant $15 for the ride down in addition to the cost of the ride up. I could be wrong though.

[theonlyski 8]

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Yeah - most aircraft accidents involve the plane hitting the ground, so thank for the ride up Mr Bus Driver, but I'll make my own way back down.

When people ask me why I skydive, I tell them "Most aviation fatalities occur on landing... Its safer if I skip that part."

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[skymama 37]

"Pay your money, take your chances" is what I've always known.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon