Hop n pop malfunction video

[Quagmirian 40]

Interesting video I found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD2h95V8YmU

[chuckakers 425]

Quagmirian

Interesting video I found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD2h95V8YmU

Without respect to the title of your post, that video shows very nicely how pulling one's knees/legs to the rear and arching before and during a chop promotes stability, or maybe more accurately how failing to promotes instability. It also demonstrates how trying to get stable before deploying a reserve costs valuable altitude.

The jumper took 4 seconds +/- from the time he chopped to the time he pulled the reserve ripcord and pretty much all of it was because he was flailing in an effort to go belly-to-earth.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[BigMark 1]

Looks like he was getting ready for potatoe bridge.

[dthames 0]

chuckakers

***Interesting video I found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD2h95V8YmU

Without respect to the title of your post, that video shows very nicely how pulling one's knees/legs to the rear and arching before and during a chop promotes stability, or maybe more accurately how failing to promotes instability. It also demonstrates how trying to get stable before deploying a reserve costs valuable altitude.

The jumper took 4 seconds +/- from the time he chopped to the time he pulled the reserve ripcord and pretty much all of it was because he was flailing in an effort to go belly-to-earth.

Much less drama with an RSL.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[pchapman 279]

The amusing part is that he's jumping a BASE canopy (in a skydiving rig - a Racer it appears FWIW when it comes to RSL arguments), and on opening one toggle shoots up into the lines, with the brake line not even through the guide ring. And he's jumping slider up. So the brake setting is entirely incorrect.

Bad packing, bad position at the cutaway, didn't follow his chopped gear, overshot landing area, fell over on landing.

On the plus side, he did have sufficient altitude for his flailing, and kindly wore a GoPro for our benefit.

And I bet he learned a whole lot. quite ready for BASE.

[chuckakers 425]

dthames

******Interesting video I found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD2h95V8YmU

Without respect to the title of your post, that video shows very nicely how pulling one's knees/legs to the rear and arching before and during a chop promotes stability, or maybe more accurately how failing to promotes instability. It also demonstrates how trying to get stable before deploying a reserve costs valuable altitude.

The jumper took 4 seconds +/- from the time he chopped to the time he pulled the reserve ripcord and pretty much all of it was because he was flailing in an effort to go belly-to-earth.

Much less drama with an RSL.

No disagreement there, but falling away from a chop belly-to-earth is better with or without an RSL.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 425]

pchapman

...didn't follow his chopped gear...

I have 11 reserve rides and have never once followed my chopped gear and do not recommend it to others.

Our first responsibility is to land safely and the odds of doing that - especially under a reserve canopy that we seldom if ever fly - are much better if we land on the DZ where we are familiar with obstacles, have wind direction indicators, etc. Following a cutaway main/free bag to an off DZ landing increases the likelihood of landing problems.

I suggest people try to maintain visual contact with the chopped gear while landing at the DZ or in the best possible alternate area if a DZ landing isn't an option.

Safety over possible monetary loss. The beer tastes better when we survive the jump.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Trafficdiver 8]

I saw a guy catch his buddies main at Fitzgerald last year. It then went up into his main and turned it into a ball of shit.

He cut away without an RSL and plummeted for a while before getting a reserve out and landing ok.

[airtwardo 7]

Trafficdiver

I saw a guy catch his buddies main at Fitzgerald last year. It then went up into his main and turned it into a ball of shit.

He cut away without an RSL and plummeted for a while before getting a reserve out and landing ok.

Safer to follow it down...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[yoink 321]

pchapman

didn't follow his chopped gear, overshot landing area, fell over on landing.

You're reaching, which is unusual for you.

For newbies - there are good lessons here re body position and arguments for an RSL

but... after a chop you head home. Don't follow your gear. Don't feel compelled to hit an X. Don't worry about standing up... your priority is landing safely, nothing else.

[pchapman 279]

Fair enough on the following gear - people still have to stay safe and within their own skill level given the terrain around.

It's sort of glass half empty or half full. I say follow (unless you're afraid of hurting yourself), others might say don't follow (unless you're sure you'll be fine.)

Now, I'm actually pretty tolerant of jumpers' decisions as long as everyone makes it down safe. Maybe he just jumped the canopy because it was fun to try something new, and he might not even have packed it himself.

But for the purpose of a little internet humor, it does seem funny that Mr Maybe Soon to be Badass BASE Jumper mals the BASE canopy, is sub-optimal in emergency procedures, in over 2 minutes under reserve seems to barely if at all look around to see where the nice vented BASE canopy has drifted (which belongs to his buddy according to the youtube description), and overshoots the target, not exactly demonstrating highly tuned, split-second BASE skills...

As for off-landings, hell I've screwed one up when chasing someone's freebag too low, taking a small crossbrace downwind into tall grass and dodging shrubs...

[jclalor 12]

I had a very similar slow speed malfunction on a sunset 13K H&P with an RSL. I would Have thought that after a couple of hundred jumps I would be use to the sensation of falling, but for that second or two that it took for the reserve to deploy, it was very disorientating. It erased any doubt that I ever had about using an RSL.

It really sucks spending 10 minutes pulling on lines and toggles and getting ready to chop. The one thing I would have done different is to position myself so that my main would have landed closer to the landing area.

[Hellis 0]

pchapman

....with the brake line not even through the guide ring. And he's jumping slider up. So the brake setting is entirely incorrect....

Depends.
If the jump was meant to be just a skydive with a BASE canopy, then yes it's incorrect.

But if his goal was to fly the canopy with steeringlines outside the slider he was correct.
The canopy responds very different with or without the guide rings.

[pchapman 279]

Now this is diverging into BASE packing, but you never pack with the steering lines outside the slider if using the slider (ie, slider up). In this case, it looked like the steering lines went through the slider, in which case, you never pack with the lines outside the guide rings.

Unless there's some new or advanced trick I'm unaware of, that's traditional BASE packing rules.

It would somewhat defeat the purpose, if one tried to fly with brakes free of the risers, but still constrained by the slider.

Unless one also planned to push the toggles up through the slider rings after opening to free them, and be careful not to let go of one while fiddling with the other, in order to get a feel for the canopy as it would be for slider off....

I haven't looked closely enough at the video to try to figure out to what degree the brake might have released due to bad packing, or due to knocking it out with his hand, or some combination thereof.

In any case it was still a jump with "high learning potential".

[Hellis 0]

pchapman

Now this is diverging into BASE packing, but you never pack with the steering lines outside the slider if using the slider (ie, slider up). In this case, it looked like the steering lines went through the slider, in which case, you never pack with the lines outside the guide rings.

Unless there's some new or advanced trick I'm unaware of, that's traditional BASE packing rules.

It would somewhat defeat the purpose, if one tried to fly with brakes free of the risers, but still constrained by the slider.

Unless one also planned to push the toggles up through the slider rings after opening to free them, and be careful not to let go of one while fiddling with the other, in order to get a feel for the canopy as it would be for slider off....

I haven't looked closely enough at the video to try to figure out to what degree the brake might have released due to bad packing, or due to knocking it out with his hand, or some combination thereof.

In any case it was still a jump with "high learning potential".

What I thought of was just as you said, to push the toggles through the slider grommets to free them.
Because a BASE canopy is very slow the fiddling with the toggles is not a big problem.
If you do drop one toggle you just have to do "test 2", land on one riser and one toggle, or two risers.
What he ended up with was probably the only bad thing that could happen, slow deployment, slider stuck, loosing a toggle that ends up in the lines.
It's a long chain of "bad luck". But somehow I believe one contributing factor could be that we was so quick on the risers.
Quick on "steering" is normally good but sometimes you probably should just chill and wait. And using LRM with a slider is probably one of those times

But I agree with all that you wrote, it's "incorrect rigged". But he probably planned it this way.

[skydivecat 3]

FWIW I was on this jump, flying near the jumper that flew into the main. He was NOT trying to catch it, he was trying to watch/follow it, underestimated his canopy's descent rate vs the cut mains, flew to close, and accidently became entangled.

I can assure you that it was not on purpose. Lesson's were learned and it showed how quick good intentions can go to shit up there.

[Trafficdiver 8]

skydivecat

FWIW I was on this jump, flying near the jumper that flew into the main. He was NOT trying to catch it, he was trying to watch/follow it, underestimated his canopy's descent rate vs the cut mains, flew to close, and accidently became entangled.

I can assure you that it was not on purpose. Lesson's were learned and it showed how quick good intentions can go to shit up there.

And that's a good reason to not watch/follow it. Let people on the ground watch it and worry about landing yourself under a good canopy.

[skydivecat 3]

I agree completely, I don't want to be near anyone else's shit up there. I fly a large canopy with a low wingloading, I'll watch a chop from above/afar to get a sight line on it until 1500ft, then I am in landing mode. He effed up, he got talked to, he learned from it. I was just saying he wasn't intentionally TRYING to "catch his buddy's main" which a lot of people have wrongly said about the incident. That is a great way to get yourself killed.

[pchapman 279]

Regarding this case:

Quote

the jumper that flew into the main. He was NOT trying to catch it, he was trying to watch/follow it,

Well, at least it is an argument not to follow too closely.

Seems I've had this sort of little difference in philosophy in another thread lately
It is indeed easy to get sucked into spiralling crazily around jettisoned gear, not paying attention to others in the air, or taking time to plan one's own safe landing.

I wonder what good advice is for how to follow gear. Maybe: Fly a wide box or circular pattern so you don't need to do sharp 180s or try to peer far behind you, stay in brakes to maximize your time aloft if you have any landing concerns, and pre-plan to break it off at some altitude that'll allow you to find a safe landing area, whether that's 500 ft or 2000 ft in the area you are in.

[Boogers 0]

Looked landable to me.

[Di0 2]

Hellis

***....with the brake line not even through the guide ring. And he's jumping slider up. So the brake setting is entirely incorrect....

Depends.
If the jump was meant to be just a skydive with a BASE canopy, then yes it's incorrect.

But if his goal was to fly the canopy with steeringlines outside the slider he was correct.
The canopy responds very different with or without the guide rings.

I guess he couldn't really decide what he wanted, so he went for the left brake outside the grommets and the right brake inside.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[Hellis 0]

Di0

******....with the brake line not even through the guide ring. And he's jumping slider up. So the brake setting is entirely incorrect....

Depends.
If the jump was meant to be just a skydive with a BASE canopy, then yes it's incorrect.

But if his goal was to fly the canopy with steeringlines outside the slider he was correct.
The canopy responds very different with or without the guide rings.

I guess he couldn't really decide what he wanted, so he went for the left brake outside the grommets and the right brake inside.

Really?
I can't see for sure but something keeps the slider from coming down and I think it's the steeringline.

[airtwardo 7]

Boogers

Looked landable to me.

This

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Boogers 0]

airtwardo

***Looked landable to me.

This

It's there. It's square. It's flying straight. The slider is up the lines about a foot - no big deal. And you can flare with rear risers. Heck, I wouldn't want to waste a reserve pack job on that.

[ianyapxw 0]

So after all this discussion what caused the malfunction? Is it a packing error? What can we learn from this?