FAA ramp checks??

[Skydivesg 7]

I know the FAA visited a couple of west coast DZs over the weekend.

I'm just wondering if any other DZ's around the country have been checked since the first of the year.

Bueller?? Bueller?

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I don't know of other recent ramp checks.

While the DZO/pilots have lots of aircraft/flight related regulations to comply with, it seems to me that the typical sport jumper at an established DZ has rather little that falls under FAA purview.

Is there anything other than this short list?

--Reserve in date.
--AAD w/in manufacturer's directions IF AN AAD USED.
--Wear seatbelt during taxi, takeoff, landing.
--Cloud and visibility clearance.
--Not jumping under the influence of alcohol/drugs.

Seems to me that sport jumpers have little to fear PERSONALLY, while DZO/pilots have plenty to worry about. Of course, individual jumpers would be affected if DZO/pilots got spanked enough to keep the planes on the ground.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[captain1976 0]

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I don't know of other recent ramp checks.

While the DZO/pilots have lots of aircraft/flight related regulations to comply with, it seems to me that the typical sport jumper at an established DZ has rather little that falls under FAA purview.

Is there anything other than this short list?

--Reserve in date.
--AAD w/in manufacturer's directions IF AN AAD USED.
--Wear seatbelt during taxi, takeoff, landing.
--Cloud and visibility clearance.
--Not jumping under the influence of alcohol/drugs.

Seems to me that sport jumpers have little to fear PERSONALLY, while DZO/pilots have plenty to worry about. Of course, individual jumpers would be affected if DZO/pilots got spanked enough to keep the planes on the ground.

I don't think any FAA Inspector would have as much interest in AAD's as they would with TSO'd gear. Their focus is generally aircraft airworthiness and Pilot criteria.
Whoever gets ramped check better beware, Each Inspector gets a regular review and the more busts they have, the more brownie points they earn resulting in a bigger paycheck.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[diablopilot 2]

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I don't know of other recent ramp checks.

While the DZO/pilots have lots of aircraft/flight related regulations to comply with, it seems to me that the typical sport jumper at an established DZ has rather little that falls under FAA purview.

Is there anything other than this short list?

--Reserve in date.
--AAD w/in manufacturer's directions IF AN AAD USED.
--Wear seatbelt during taxi, takeoff, landing.
--Cloud and visibility clearance.
--Not jumping under the influence of alcohol/drugs.

Seems to me that sport jumpers have little to fear PERSONALLY, while DZO/pilots have plenty to worry about. Of course, individual jumpers would be affected if DZO/pilots got spanked enough to keep the planes on the ground.

Individual jumpers can face criminal actions for violations of the FAR's just as any civilian on an airliner could for example.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Skydivesg 7]

I wasn't asking for the benfit of the individual jumper.

I've heard that the feds will be more proactive in checking jump operations since that scathing report by the NTSB last year.

I'm just wondering how many DZs have experienced it first hand this year.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[nickfrey 0]

I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

[mark 107]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

You were led wrong. I don't know of any cases where the FAA has used its authority to impose civil fines against a non-certificate holder, though.

Also, if you cause the pilot to get sanctioned, there will probably be other consequences.

Mark

[riggerpaul 1]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

Echoing what Mark said, consider 105.43.

That regulation begins

No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft

So, while the regulation makes special mention of the pilot in command, it also prohibits any person from things too.

As Mark said, maybe the FAA has never exercised this aspect of their power, but that doesn't mean you are not subject to their action should they desire to come after you.

[darthur2000 0]

Don't forget the packers. Packing is covered under FAR part 105 and clearly states that either the person jumping the parachute, an FAA certificated rigger or someone under the "Direct Supervision" of a certificated rigger is allowed to pack it. How many DZ's let that one slide and don't have a rigger on the ground supervising the packers (and yes that includes sport packers who are required to be supervised).

[tjm 0]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

Echoing what Mark said, consider 105.43.

That regulation begins

No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft

So, while the regulation makes special mention of the pilot in command, it also prohibits any person from things too.

As Mark said, maybe the FAA has never exercised this aspect of their power, but that doesn't mean you are not subject to their action should they desire to come after you.

So, possible violations for either one or both, right?

I've gotten ramp checked before a demo once, but everyone was in compliance with regulations. So, I'm not sure what the consequences would have been, but was always told the pilot would get most (not all) of the heat.

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[Psychonaut 0]

Even with some things not being clear whether or not the pilot would be at fault or not, I hope you all understand the risk every dz pilot is taking. One small strike against them due to ANYTHING no matter how small it seems and they're screwed, no more pilot career. So for the sake of their careers and lively hood, don't be an idiot.

Stay high pull low

[riggerpaul 1]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

Echoing what Mark said, consider 105.43.

That regulation begins

No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft

So, while the regulation makes special mention of the pilot in command, it also prohibits any person from things too.

As Mark said, maybe the FAA has never exercised this aspect of their power, but that doesn't mean you are not subject to their action should they desire to come after you.

So, possible violations for either one or both, right?

I've gotten ramp checked before a demo once, but everyone was in compliance with regulations. So, I'm not sure what the consequences would have been, but was always told the pilot would get most (not all) of the heat.

And as Mark also said, he's never heard of the FAA using their power against a run-of-the-mill jumper.

But that doesn't mean they couldn't if it was important enough to them.

But, in terms of bang for the buck, going after someone with an FAA certificate of some sort will be an easier battle, and will result in more people fearing the consequences of violations.

Loss or suspension of a certificate is a big deal for pilots, and other pilots will likely take note.

If joe jumper got fined for something, the other jumpers would not give it a second thought.

[tombuch 0]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

As others have said, you are incorrect. I wrote a feature about jumper responsibilities for the Ranch web site when I was S&TA. It's Article 13, "FAA Regulations Applied" available at: http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[riggerrob 643]

Even if they do not hold FAA ratings, individual jumpers can still be punished for violating Federal Air Regulations.
What about what's-his-name Magnuson who got fined $500 - by the FAA -after he got caught packing his own reserve for the third time.
The FAA got ticked over the cracked stiffener and holes in the canopy and the fact that Magnuson admitted to forging a rigger's signature on his reserve packing data card.

[diablopilot 2]

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I wasn't asking for the benfit of the individual jumper.

I've heard that the feds will be more proactive in checking jump operations since that scathing report by the NTSB last year.

I'm just wondering how many DZs have experienced it first hand this year.

I'd say the negative attention a certain NorCal DZ brought on it it's self and caused it's fleet to be grounded for some months has produced a wave of reaction from the FAA as well.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

You were led wrong. I don't know of any cases where the FAA has used its authority to impose civil fines against a non-certificate holder, though.

Also, if you cause the pilot to get sanctioned, there will probably be other consequences.

Mark

While I can't recall details, I seem to remember hearing a story of some jumpers in Hawaii quite a few years ago having to face the music with the FAA for cloud clearance violations.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

I know a small cessna DZ in indiana got ramp checked 2 or 3 weeks ago. I don't think there was anything to cite, its pretty tightly run ship over there.. I also don't know what prompted their visit.

[stratostar 5]

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I also don't know what prompted their visit

It's called springtime.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[totter 2]

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It's called springtime.

The Philly FSDO loves to visit all the DZs in their area in June.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

We got a visit last month. I wasn't there for it, but from what I heard, the dude was very pleasant, and was more interested in the plane than anything else.

No consequences came from the visit.

That's the first visit we have had in a long time.

And the FAA hit "Lawnchair Larry" with a pretty stiff fine. You don't need to have one of their certificates to feel their wrath.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[matthewcline 0]

Correct and knowing one of the Jumpers personally (who had video proving his innocence) he stated it cost him over 5 grand to get the fine and violation tossed out.

SO busting a cloud is not an "oh well" affair.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[skydivekc 0]

I know in our area due to several recent crashes, maint. issues with DZ's we are seeing more of an FAA presence. I have been visited several times in the last few years. Been contacted recently as well. I have a maint. inspector and a operations inspector. They have been nice to call and schedule a time usually during the week to visit. This has been good as we are only a weekend operation and it minimizes downtime as well as eating into there weekend. Keep your operation tight with everything well laid out and organized and they seem to be fine. TM's make sure your medical is current and jumpers you are responsible for keeping your gear in-date and airworthy. Pilots well you all know the drill.

[Icon134 0]

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It's called springtime.

The Philly FSDO loves to visit all the DZs in their area in June.

The Cincinnati FDSO is a regular jumper... He's at the DZ on a regular basis.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[kkeenan 14]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot.

As has been said, this is not correct.
Individual jumpers can be cited by the FAA for violation of FARs (such as cloud clearance) and fined big bucks, payable in federal court.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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I was lead to believe that since a skydiver has no FAA license that any an ALL violations the FAA may find are the responsibility of the pilot. For example if my reserve is out of date and the pilot allows me on the jump plane, its the pilot that gets sanctioned.

I don't mean to pile on, as many have already poited out that you were lead wrong, but this...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3688979;#3688979

... did happen to several friends of mine.