captain1976 0 #51 May 18, 2010 I think the round is safer if a jumper is incapacitated in any way. Either unconscious or with 1 hand/arm unusable, the square will assume down wind flight and the landing could smash your fact with its forward speed. I had a dislocated right shoulder a few years back (Otter tail ran into me) and had to pull silver. Sure wish I had a round since I was basically helpless except for a couple of left rear riser turns. I got slammed on landing.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #52 May 18, 2010 My old rig has a Strong 26' lopo. I've used it twice, both terminal openings. No "slam." They were smooth, as were the landings. (Perhaps I was thinking of the alternative?) My first reserve ride (& first terminal opening) was under an oscillating, unmodified non-steerable chest-mount 24' (pilot chute removed.) I trained on T-10's and have nearly 50 round jumps so the thought of a cutaway does not paralyze me with fear. My new rig has a square reserve. I used it once. Flies real nice. I'm beginning to understand why people have been using these things for the last 20+ years. Also, if I ever get the jones to "downsize" it's nice to know I can handle a 190. What I don't understand is the attitude of some riggers who won't pack a round because THEY would never jump one. Please guys, cut the crap. You were required to learn how to pack rounds in order to get your rating. If I ask you to pack my old rig, please just perform the service. You don't have to jump it if you don't want to. I'll even give you money. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #53 May 18, 2010 My square reserve @ 1:1 landing with the brakes set is a whole bunch better than my 26LoPo EVER was! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #54 May 18, 2010 So, another person smart enough to only load 1:1 on their reserve. Whatcha tryin' to do, live forever? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #55 May 18, 2010 Quotethe square will assume down wind flight Myth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #56 May 18, 2010 QuoteYou were required to learn how to pack rounds in order to get your rating. Surprisingly, not so. I've talked to several people who went to a rigger course this winter, and they would have had to pay extra to learn how to pack a round. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #57 May 18, 2010 Quote Quote You were required to learn how to pack rounds in order to get your rating. Surprisingly, not so. I've talked to several people who went to a rigger course this winter, and they would have had to pay extra to learn how to pack a round. HW Really? (I'm not doubting you, just surprised at it) I was told by my instructor that the DPRE could (not would but could) give me any rig that I would be rated for on my test. With a back rating that could include sport squares, tandems or rounds. Rounds were covered in the class, and we were advised that ignoring them because we wouldn't see them out there could increase the chances of seeing one on the test"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat933 0 #58 May 18, 2010 What's a canopy transfer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #59 May 18, 2010 QuoteWhat's a canopy transfer? Main is out & open, fire the reserve and cutaway the main. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #60 May 18, 2010 Quote You were required to learn how to pack rounds in order to get your rating. If I ask you to pack my old rig, please just perform the service. You don't have to jump it if you don't want to. I'll even give you money. i got my senior rigger ticket from handsome dave in 2009, and we were taught, and had to pack 4 or 5 rounds. that said, riggers don't have to pack anything they don't want to. if you come across someone that doesn't want your money, find someone that does. personally, i would pack one if i had the tools. the only round canopies in the neighbourhood belong to the school, so i don't see any of them and investing even $50 for stuff would be silly."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #61 May 18, 2010 Quote So, another person smart enough to only load 1:1 on their reserve. Whatcha tryin' to do, live forever? That's my plan...so far so good! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #62 May 18, 2010 Quote Anyone who's been jumping for less than 20 years has probably never jumped a round at all and the first time they pull their reserve they're going to be like a first jumper without training. They're coming down under a parachute type they've never seen. How many jumps do you have on an F111 7 cell 150?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #63 May 18, 2010 Quote Quote Anyone who's been jumping for less than 20 years has probably never jumped a round at all and the first time they pull their reserve they're going to be like a first jumper without training. They're coming down under a parachute type they've never seen. How many jumps do you have on an F111 7 cell 150? I somehow think he is NOT going to be answering that question Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #64 May 18, 2010 QuoteQuotethe square will assume down wind flight Myth. Only if there's no wind shear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #65 May 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote the square will assume down wind flight Myth. Only if there's no wind shear. Prof, is that tongue-in-cheek? I agree with "Myth". The statements of how canopies weather vane to sail downwind are categorically false. Similar discussions used to be held on how aircraft stalled more quickly turning downwind. Jimmy Doolittle and other early aviation pioneers disproved all this early in the last century. Any aircraft aloft is flying in the moving air mass that is our sky. It doesn't know if it has a headwind, tailwind, or no wind; it flies the same. I think the myth with canopies started because many, maybe all, canopies have a slight built-in turn. So, if left uncontrolled, it's very unlikely they'll be facing withing 10 degrees of into the wind on landing. It's 17 times more likely they'll be off the wind line. It's like saying the ditch along the highway has a magnetic attraction for my car. No, it doesn't, but if I go long enough without steering, I'll certainly be in one ditch or another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #66 May 18, 2010 Quote How many jumps do you have on an F111 7 cell 150? Nice point. I've seen a few injuries on reserves because the flare is quite different. Still better than a round, though, I think. Hey, I have about 1300+ jumps on F-111 7 cells about the size of my reserve. Must be why I stand it up when I use it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #67 May 18, 2010 Let's not derail this thread, but descending through wind shear does seem to allow for a canopy to head into wind due to the directional stability of a canopy. There have been threads debating the issue. I'm not sure that it makes much of a difference in practice. So in general my personal belief is that we stay with the idea that canopies' flight direction is generally not affected by wind direction, except that some effect may be caused when there is a high level of shear present. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #68 May 18, 2010 Naw, it's all random. My strong belief in that can be shaken by good experimental evidence, but to this date I've been shown none. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #69 May 18, 2010 QuoteNice point. I've seen a few injuries on reserves because the flare is quite different. Still better than a round, though, I think. I agree the 7cell F111 will be close to what a person is used to... But not the same and yes, I think that is why so many people biff in under a reserve. So... I'd rather have a square if I was able to control it, but I'd rather have a round if I was knocked out."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #70 May 18, 2010 QuoteQuote You were required to learn how to pack rounds in order to get your rating. If I ask you to pack my old rig, please just perform the service. You don't have to jump it if you don't want to. I'll even give you money. i got my senior rigger ticket from handsome dave in 2009, and we were taught, and had to pack 4 or 5 rounds. This year (2010) Handsome Dave Dewolf no longer required rounds. The very first year in nearly 4 decades of teaching the senior riggers course. I believe it is still an option but I don't think anyone was interested.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #71 May 18, 2010 Hi John, Quotebut to this date I've been shown none. Every square reserve that I have ever drop tested with a dummy has turned down-wind; bar none. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #72 May 18, 2010 Quote Every square reserve that I have ever drop tested with a dummy has turned down-wind; bar none. JerryBaumchen Bet a packer would say it is do to body position.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #73 May 18, 2010 Did it stop once it reach perfectly downwind or did the turn continue past the wind line?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huge 0 #74 May 18, 2010 QuoteEvery square reserve that I have ever drop tested with a dummy has turned down-wind; bar none.Don't get me wrong, this is honest question; how many have you drop tested? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #75 May 18, 2010 Hi Phree, It has many years ago but the old memory says that it stopped on/about the windline. They did not wander once they were at the downwind heading. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
