rehmwa 2 #76 May 17, 2010 Quote I have noticed that in general RW folks seem to be more goal driven in their skydiving. "points" getting it "right" Where the FF seem to be more relaxed just having fun. GENERALLY absolutely not true anymore - that's such a stereotype - and being goal driven is "relaxing" for certain types as well - I find that most people that preach "relaxed" are really about as uptight and anyone at the DZ. What's relaxing about a dive where 3 or 4 guys are so bad and have no plan that they are nearly killing each other with incompetence. "Relax", "fun" jump usually is just rationalization for not wanting to learn and progress - rationalization for not having the skills to do as good as they thought they 'should' be. that's why it's better to define people into 'goal driven' vs 'non-goal driven' rather than by freefall discipline I'm the first type (I'd rather work to a plan and succeed as I get better) - So I'm super jazzed about GOOD RW and also what's happening also with VRW today. It's very relaxing and rewarding. I'm not a big fan of either RW or FF when it's just geeking and trying to get close to whoever has a helmet cam. However, some people like doing just that and I think that's cool for them - it just doesn't do it for me. But do love their smiles just as much as mine when we're around the bonfire. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #77 May 17, 2010 QuotePlease.... there is no way you can tell me that technical belly flying is as difficult as technical sit or head-down flying. I don't need to have 1000 rides on a bicycle and a 1000 rides on a unicycle to tell you that it's more difficult to ride a unicycle. Nice try...Crazy It is, and he is correct saying you don't know enough to know what you don't know. To try and claim RW is not as difficult is not supported when you look at teams like Airspeed, Fury, XL ect that train all year in it and still think they can improve. To try and claim that VRW people are only out to flop around is not supported when you see teams like Standard. What is supported is that some people don't have enough experience to know the other aspect as well as people with more experience. People who have the experience to know, know better than to try and make BS claims to make "their" discipline look cooler."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #78 May 17, 2010 Quote Quote Please.... there is no way you can tell me that technical belly flying is as difficult as technical sit or head-down flying. I don't need to have 1000 rides on a bicycle and a 1000 rides on a unicycle to tell you that it's more difficult to ride a unicycle. Nice try...Crazy It is, and he is correct saying you don't know enough to know what you don't know. To try and claim RW is not as difficult is not supported when you look at teams like Airspeed, Fury, XL ect that train all year in it and still think they can improve. To try and claim that VRW people are only out to flop around is not supported when you see teams like Standard. What is supported is that some people don't have enough experience to know the other aspect as well as people with more experience. People who have the experience to know, know better than to try and make BS claims to make "their" discipline look cooler. Yeah, I don't even know what I don't know.... that line is getting so fucking old here it makes me want to puke. So many of you lack luster criticizers keep going around and saying the same old shit over and over. And then another one comes around and says, "That's cause it's true... dur, dur, dur...." Followed by name calling, "You're such a 'SkyGod', with your 'mad skills', lose the ego and try to learn something. All because you don't agree with that person, when 9 times out of 10 they probably: do want to learn, don't claim to have 'mad skillz', and don't have an ego as big as yours, but you accuse them of it to try and discredit them. and BTW, I never once said that FF was "cooler".... I said I prefer it to RW, and that it is more difficult than RW. I will give you another example since you couldn't comprehend the bicycle/unicycle one. -Simply getting even just 2 people to get a solid dock with the same FF/RW jump numbers is MUCH more difficult in FF, to not understand that is just fucking stupid.. You don't even know what you don't know. Technical FF is more difficult than technical RW... I have yet to see anyone give a reasonable explanation/example of why it's not.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,065 #79 May 17, 2010 >I don't need to have 1000 rides on a bicycle and a 1000 rides on a unicycle >to tell you that it's more difficult to ride a unicycle. It's a lot easier to ride a unicycle than to ride a bicycle well. I've been riding bikes of all sorts for 30 years and just now learning all the things I don't know. RW's the same way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #80 May 17, 2010 QuoteQuoteOf course the god of freeflying probably cannot RW worth crap. (cue someone proving that wrong) but there is a reason head down flying is not in AFF level 4. On cue: Rook Nelson has RW and FF medals from the same Nationals and was on the 246 way world record in 1998. Trent Alkek and Stevie Boyd were on the Texas State Record 150 way. I seem to remember doing quite a few throw together sunset load bigways with Airspeed at Eloy..... and looking to the slots on the outside or at the ends of arms hangin out there with Omar or Amy Chemelki.... or many other of the world record FF types... hangin out on their bellies like everyone else.... and they had big grins of joy on their faces like everyone else. Learning the basics of all disciplines leads to better all around skydivers.... no matter what their chosen discipline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 3 #81 May 17, 2010 I like your style big! Mad keybroads stills .. skillz ! You keyboard mentos ... uhmm ... mentor? I like your style! Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #82 May 17, 2010 Quote All because you don't agree with that person, when 9 times out of 10 they probably: do want to learn, don't claim to have 'mad skillz', and don't have an ego as big as yours, but you accuse them of it to try and discredit them. The only one here acting like the know it all ... is you. Quote I said I prefer it to RW, and that it is more difficult than RW. To put it into perspective... The difference between us is you are claiming that your chosen discipline is harder than anyone else's.... And my point is that they all have different areas of difficulty.... I have more experience than you in each of them, and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. Quote I will give you another example since you couldn't comprehend the bicycle/unicycle one. I can comprehend it.... I just think it is crap. You don't seem able to grasp that people with more experience than you might actually know more than you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #83 May 17, 2010 Quote >It's a lot easier to ride a unicycle than to ride a bicycle well. Uni's are HARD, especially the part about balancing the red ball on my nose. So I think Uni's are much more technical and you are just a bicycle snob with a chip on your shoulder. You CLEARLY just don't know what you don't know. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #84 May 17, 2010 QuoteAnd my point is that they all have different areas of difficulty.... That is the most intelligent statement that you've made and I agree 100%. I don't think you'll find anyone to argue against that point.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #85 May 17, 2010 I'm starting my own discipline - "atmotrackwingturnpointwork" (C) anyone that's done 4 jumps in any other discipline and STILL isn't being invited on highly public events or being worshipped at their local DZ for their incredible "nearly" 300 jumps experience can join my group. no dirtdives no formations no critiques no plan EVERYONE wears a camera but can't turn it on EVERYONE jumps 100 sq ft cross brace or less EVERYONE sucks in their stomaches when a girl shows up at the DZ we don't actually jump, we just strut about and talk about how cool we are and how uptight all those Airspeed and Mandrin and Knights and Alchemy and etc teams are for being "much too serious" and not relaxed about skydiving like we think everyone esle should be - crap like RW and FF and wingssuiting etc is to be dumped on as only stepping stones to our sport base jumpers can hang with us, but only if they stay quiet CrW jumpers can sit in our general area, but only if they bathe first that's about it who wants to join - we have patches, and cookies ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #86 May 17, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnd my point is that they all have different areas of difficulty.... That is the most intelligent statement that you've made and I agree 100%. I don't think you'll find anyone to argue against that point. I disagree - it's not like 'flame bowling' not even close ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #87 May 17, 2010 Quotewho wants to join - we have patches, and cookies If you would have had numbers.... I would have jumped on it. But without numbers, I can't use it to sign a logbook."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #88 May 17, 2010 I don't really see the point in trying to say one discipline is more difficult then another. At the world class level there really isn't any difference in difficulty. No matter what the discipline is, it takes a lot of time, dedication and skill to be among the top competitors. Just wanted to add.. Having competed in last 3 US Nationals and currently on a team training for 2010 Nationals in Chicago. I am really impressed by the teams that manage to stay together for more then one year. Getting a team together is not nearly has hard as keeping the team together!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #89 May 17, 2010 QuoteQuotewho wants to join - we have patches, and cookies If you would have had numbers.... I would have jumped on it. But without numbers, I can't use it to sign a logbook. we don't use logbooks - that's way too regimented r skillz r 2 madd ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #90 May 17, 2010 Quote we don't use logbooks - that's way too regimented r skillz r 2 madd The time to design and make a patch is not regimented??? What kinda fly by night organization is this? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #91 May 17, 2010 Quote What kinda fly by night organization is this? Night jumps are way overrated... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #92 May 17, 2010 Quote Quote we don't use logbooks - that's way too regimented r skillz r 2 madd The time to design and make a patch is not regimented??? What kinda fly by night organization is this? pretty laid back compared to guys like you that log your patch collection....... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #93 May 17, 2010 Quote Quote What kinda fly by night organization is this? Night jumps are way overrated I sat down and made a list of the skydiving stuff that I know I don't know. If I study it for a while, I hope to learn a few things. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #94 May 17, 2010 Quote pretty laid back compared to guys like you that log your patch collection....... You have seen my jumpsuit.... I have one patch on it. I DID find an SCR SCS patch in my gear bag... Which is really funny since I never applied for one. (Not the weirdest thing I have ever found in my gear bag, BTW)."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #95 May 17, 2010 Quote and BTW, I never once said that FF was "cooler".... I said I prefer it to RW, and that it is more difficult than RW. I will give you another example since you couldn't comprehend the bicycle/unicycle one. -Simply getting even just 2 people to get a solid dock with the same FF/RW jump numbers is MUCH more difficult in FF, to not understand that is just fucking stupid.. You don't even know what you don't know. Technical FF is more difficult than technical RW... I have yet to see anyone give a reasonable explanation/example of why it's not. That's what I like to call the "one point average" comparison between FS and VFS. You're correct that it is more difficult to score a one point average in a VFS competition than an FS competition. But in either case you're not really in the competition. It's more comforting for one's ego to suck at something that's perceived as difficult than to suck at something that's supposedly easy. The problem is the longer someone sucks at the difficult thing the deeper their ego's vested interest in its perceived difficulty becomes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #96 May 17, 2010 QuoteThe problem is the longer someone sucks at the difficult thing the deeper their ego's vested interest in its perceived difficulty becomes. Ouch ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #97 May 17, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe problem is the longer someone sucks at the difficult thing the deeper their ego's vested interest in its perceived difficulty becomes. Ouch I will have to take your word for it. :)*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #98 May 17, 2010 Quote QuoteQuoteThe problem is the longer someone sucks at the difficult thing the deeper their ego's vested interest in its perceived difficulty becomes. Ouch I will have to take your word for it. :) Hey, at the same nationals on two different teams I got a 12.5 avg and a silver medal in VFS and a 9.4 avg and a dead-last finish in FS. My ego was last seen rocking back and forth and talking to itself in a padded room. /edited to add: but now that it's out of the way... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #99 May 17, 2010 QuoteHey, at the same nationals on two different teams I got a 12.5 avg and a silver medal in VFS and a 9.4 avg and a dead-last finish in FS. Yes, but with all that real world experience.. What would you know?????;^p"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #100 May 18, 2010 It's pretty clear that wingsuiting is the most difficult discipline, since the USPA and most other countries' national organizations require a minimum of 200 jumps before you can even try one with an instructor, and 500 jumps to try one alone. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
