Tracking Dive Corrections?

[fluidynamic 0]

While on a tracking dive, what sort of alterations do you make to your body position in order to catch a person who is:

1. Ahead & Level
2. Behind & Level
3. Ahead & Below
6. Behind & Below
4. Ahead & Above
5. Behind & Above


Thx!

Don't worry... I'll stay out of the incident reports

[Sangi 0]

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What sort of alterations do you make to your body position in order to:

1. catch people who fall below you
2. slow down for people above you
3. move forward faster to catch up
4. slow your forward drive
5. turn very fast

while doing a tracking dive? Thx!

I'm no expert but I think (assume):

1. Dive to them? Pitch your angle of attack and go semi headdown in a tracking position..

3. Move your arms closer to your body, legs closer together, pitch your shoulders forward (and a bit down) and dearch and amplify all this much more than usual.

4. Bend your legs? eh Yuri?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[kallend 2,032]

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What sort of alterations do you make to your body position in order to:

1. catch people who fall below you
2. slow down for people above you
3. move forward faster to catch up
4. slow your forward drive
5. turn very fast

while doing a tracking dive? Thx!

Poor choice of options; there are different answers for "above and behind", "above and in front", below and behind", "below and in front", behind and level", etc.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[emmiwy 0]

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What sort of alterations do you make to your body position in order to:

1. catch people who fall below you
2. slow down for people above you
3. move forward faster to catch up
4. slow your forward drive
5. turn very fast

I'm also NOT an expert, so please ask/confirm with an instructor! This is what experienced skydivers told me on my first tracking dive:

To fall faster, you almost want to think about going head down or more vertical to lose altitude more quickly. You can achieve this by maintaining your arch during the track, which will be helped by you keeping your chin up [just as in belly fly]. By decreasing your surface area or making yourself "smaller", become less resistant to the wind thereby allowing you to fly faster.

To fall slower, you do the opposite by increasing your surface area presented to the wind by making yourself "bigger." You can do this by spreading your legs a bit further apart, push down on the wind with your hands, and shrug your shoulders as high as your ears. De-arch and cup the wind!

Forward drive is the similar principle as in belly, extend legs, and point your toes. To counter this or to slow forward drive, bring your legs in slowly [otherwise someone behind you may crash into you if you slow too suddenly.]

Turns you control, just as you would in belly fly, with your arms. Push down on the wind with left hand to bank left, right hand to bank right.

[fluidynamic 0]

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Quote

What sort of alterations do you make to your body position in order to:

1. catch people who fall below you
2. slow down for people above you
3. move forward faster to catch up
4. slow your forward drive
5. turn very fast

while doing a tracking dive? Thx!

Poor choice of options; there are different answers for "above and behind", "above and in front", below and behind", "below and in front", behind and level", etc.

Ok then I'll redo the list...

Don't worry... I'll stay out of the incident reports

[Jbag 0]

im not trying to be a dick, but the best way to learn is to just go do a bunch of tracking dives and see what works for you, with your name being fluid dynamics it seems like you are used to reading books to give you the answer...just go play.

IHYD

[fluidynamic 0]

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im not trying to be a dick, but the best way to learn is to just go do a bunch of tracking dives and see what works for you, with your name being fluid dynamics it seems like you are used to reading books to give you the answer...just go play.

No that's totally cool, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, however I would disagree in the case of skydiving. In a sport where I only do 5 jumps on a good weekend and those jumps cost over $100... I'd like to have my mind prepared before those jumps so I can get the most out of em. All jumps are fun, but successful jumps are more fun.

Don't worry... I'll stay out of the incident reports

[fasted3 0]

Get coaching and video.

But what do I know?

[davelepka 4]

Don't try to overthink it. You're still just skydiving, and still flying on your belly.

If you want to speed up your descent rate, arch harder. If you want to slow your descent rate, arch less.

If you want to move forward (more forward than you're already moving), put your legs out. If you want to move 'less forawrd', bring your legs in a little.

The majority of tracking dives are flown at far less than 'tracking' speed. They're flown at a more moderate forward speed so the flyers have 'recvoery'. If a tracking dive was flown at max track, nobody would ever be able to catch up to the base, or even move into a slot. For this reason, the dive should be flown at less than max track, so everyone has a chance to get in there, and manuver when they get there. When was the last time you were on an RW jump where everyone was arching as hard as they possibly could?

You may find yourself on a 'max track' tracking dive, at which point you just made a bad choice. Soemtimes, if the group is all composed of highly experienced jumpers, the pace will be significantly higher. Those jumpers are able keep pace, and not make any mistakes that would knock them off the pace.

The other time that happens is when the leader is a huge dickhead who's trying to prove how 'awesome' he is by flying too fast or too flat. In either case, if you find yourself on one of those dives, you're in the wrong place for 60 jumps. The nice thing about being on a fast tracking dive is that if you can't keep up, you get left behind in clear air, but none of that helps your learning or the 'fun factor'. Try to avoid trackign dives with those guys in the future.

There are other tricks and techniques for tracking dives, but those will come with time and jumps as you find what works for your body type and flying style. For now, keep it simple and just use the belly flying techniques you learned in AFF.

[kallend 2,032]

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The other time that happens is when the leader is a huge dickhead who's trying to prove how 'awesome' he is by flying too fast or too flat. In either case, if you find yourself on one of those dives, you're in the wrong place for 60 jumps. The nice thing about being on a fast tracking dive is that if you can't keep up, you get left behind in clear air, but none of that helps your learning or the 'fun factor'. Try to avoid trackign dives with those guys in the future.

I don't know about that. The event that most motivated me to improve my tracking was going on a tracking dive with Roger and Rook Nelson. Made me realize that what I though was a good track was, in fact, quite mediocre. From that jump onward I worked hard every jump to improve my track. I still can't out-track Rook, but I'm a whole lot closer than I used to be.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Will_Evo 0]

I feel like this is being over complicated and or, things being suggested, would fail, especially when in a fast track dive with an experienced back tracker leading the dive. You can't sacrifice your cupped composure at any point in time in the dive, if you arched you would not only get below the dive, but you'd fall behind.

All of the following suggestions include keeping your upper body cupped

1. Ahead & Level -Widen your arms and legs a bit, create a bit more drag. But be aware you can't see what is behind you. it'd almost be better to get higher first, then fall back, and rejoin the dive.


2. Behind & Level -Make your legs and Arms as rigid as possible while bringing them closer together and to your body, maintaing a "cupped" composure with your upper body. Should reduce the drag enough to give you some forward speed.

3. Ahead & Below -Don't try and recover from this position unless you first fall back using #1 and then get back level and catch back up doing each separately coming up and back could be bad in a track dive.

6. Behind & Below-Cup your upper body more, and bring your legs and arms in as far as possible and make them rigid so can catch up.

4. Ahead & Above - Again this instance you should fall back first, get level, and then rejoin the dive, don't just try and come down and back at the same time, you've got a blind spot behind you.

5. Behind & Above -Bring your arms and legs closer to your body and together, and bend your knees a bit. The knees will drop you and the closing of the extremities will speed you up(assuming you maintain a cupped composure with your upper body). In an extreme case that you were way high, you may think about dipping your head down a bit, but realize this is going to drastically increase the gap between your decent rate and the tracking decent rate. The whole point of tracking is to go as far as possible while remaining as floating as possible.

Like everyone said Im still a newbie, but this what I was taught and what I use. Hope it makes sense.

-Evo

Zoo Crew

[fluidynamic 0]

Not sure why my the order of my list is so jacked up I could have sworn it was in order when I did it lol... anyway! these responses are all very helpful and somewhat contradicting, but I think I'm getting the ideal...

Forward = Rigid body, slight D arch, full extension of legs, cupping of hands, shoulders up

Backward(ish) = Legs up

Up = Widen legs, D arch, widen arms

Down = Arch, arms behind back?, legs up

Down(slower) & forward = arch, arms behind back?, legs still out

On the track dives I've done, I've usually found myself above and behind the lead. On one of my track dives I noticed that another jumper was also in this position and he crossed his arms across his chest like a mummy, kept his legs extended, and arched to get back... I did the same and it worked pretty good, but I thought, wouldn't it be better to put your arms behind your back, rather than across your chest like a mummy?

Also, nobody has talked about head position... in swimming my coach always used to tell us where the head goes the body follows... since we're still dealing with moving through a fluid in skydiving I would assume the same would be true... So perhaps

forward/up = face to earth?
back/down = face to horizon?

Don't worry... I'll stay out of the incident reports

[emmiwy 0]

I wanted to revive this thread, despite it being a little old. I did my second tracking dive yesterday, had problems keeping up with the group. I was sinking low and was far behind but I know that's something that I can fix with time and more jumps.

My question is, what is the technique/proper body positioning when exiting the plane? I arched once exiting [from the outside float position], but immediately went into a track, in order to not lose the leader. I was essentially going head down at one point, and could see the leader below me. I didn't know what to do from there to flatten out, other than arch more to go belly-earth, which explains why I had sunk so low...any thoughts? Haven't had a chance to look up tracking dive videos on youtube yet.

[NiteQwill 0]

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I wanted to revive this thread, despite it being a little old. I did my second tracking dive yesterday, had problems keeping up with the group. I was sinking low and was far behind but I know that's something that I can fix with time and more jumps.

My question is, what is the technique/proper body positioning when exiting the plane? I arched once exiting [from the outside float position], but immediately went into a track, in order to not lose the leader. I was essentially going head down at one point, and could see the leader below me. I didn't know what to do from there to flatten out, other than arch more to go belly-earth, which explains why I had sunk so low...any thoughts? Haven't had a chance to look up tracking dive videos on youtube yet.

What do I know...

On tracking dives, I have always exited the plane in a track, regardless if I'm tail, float, etc.

You should be correcting your track right out the door to keep with the group.

My thoughts are maybe you corrected your body positioning too late (thus sinking low)?

To slow down, just think "I need to get bigger" and vice versa.

I'll be there this weekend Emily! But may only do a jump or two... hop n pops... I want to score the deal on the block jump discount...

"Fail, fail again. Fail better."
-Samuel Beckett

[mdrejhon 8]

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While on a tracking dive, what sort of alterations do you make to your body position in order to catch a person who is:

1. Ahead & Level
2. Behind & Level
3. Ahead & Below
6. Behind & Below
4. Ahead & Above
5. Behind & Above


Thx!

Practice seems to make perfect. I usually don't think it; it's now automatic.

It seems most of what I learned to do in tracking abilities is during big way events. Once someone has enough skydives, try the Perris Big Way Camp. They teach you to stick close together in tracking teams for the first 3 to 5 seconds of your breakoff wave, before spreading out to clear airspace. This tends to reduce the chaos at the outers of a 100-way or bigger formation, and is technique taught by JFTC and World Team in the past. Over the last few hundred jumps I've tracked towards the end of almost every jump, often with some people within view to the left and right of me. It helps me learn how to adjust my tracking angle.

BUT, a good coach will do too -- or skydiving buddies -- but you need to tell them to slow down for you (so, easier to use a coach) so that you can more easily catch up with them and experiment with tracking angle/speed changes.

Most of the time, I just adjust my tracking angle, but sometimes I have to adjust my tracking speed. At certain angles, I can adjust the speed of my track without changing the angle. Most can easily change tracking angle easily, but it's much tricker to change speed of your track independently of the tracking angle.

To be able to adjust tracking angle semi-independently of tracking speed, it is mostly an instinctive automatic superimposition of your body between a track (ranging from steep delta to efficient track) and a bellyfly (with some variations thrown in, including a flare-like position, if you suddenly need to slow down an efficient track down to a slower track if you're catching up with someone who's tracking more slowly than you are). I've also found the most efficient track is where you get the shallowest angle away from the formation (more distance travelled versus altitude), which isn't necesarily the fastest possible track.

One example: I'm tracking fast to catch up with a slow tracker at near the same angle as I. If he's above and ahead, I go to efficient track, which usually build enough speed into the track, but not too much. That's often by going to a good flat track position. If we're now at the same angle but I am going too fast (like when I exited too early and need to catch up with someone far away), I switch to a semi-flare position and I adjust my arching (flatter versus arched) and leg apartness to try to maintain my angle while I'm braking, depending on whether I'm too efficient or too inefficient. So sometimes I have to add/remove efficiency to my track depending on what I am trying to do. Arching and dearching can help adjust my angle, as moving my arms forward and back (between flare position and track position), moving my arms up and down (between delta and floater), to help me adjust my angle and speed. I mix all of these all simultaneously, all subconsciously, like any experienced tracker would do: Lots of these relationships are very nonlinear so you really need to get "out there and feel it".
- Body arching versus flattening
- Arms up and down (i.e. delta vs floater)
- Arms slightly forward vs all the way back (i.e. slightly forward, like you're just about to flare your body)
- Legs apart or closer together
- Twisting your booties to catch more/less air

So you can see it gets complex. The purpose of combining some of these change your speed, or your angle, or both, or helps you change/accelerate/brake your tracking speed during mid-track. And depending on the position of your buddy you are trying to catch up with, the fastest way to intercept someone in a track isn't always a straight line (i.e. the divebomb -- steep delta to help build vertical speed then gradually flattening out to convert the vertical speed into forward speed in an efficient track to catch someone who's very, very, very, very far below you but not too far ahead of you yet -- i.e. delayed exits). And in addition, you also have momentum in your body, which means it takes finite time to accelerate/decelerate/change direction.

Therefore, too complex to remember 'rules', and best to get out there, do it with a coach, tell them to track slowly for you so it's easy for you to catch up -- and to let you experiment with your body next to him/her. It all becomes second nature, eventually, you eventually figure out how to fly your body for the speeds and angles. And becomes pretty simple.

I once accidentally exited 2 second early on a 23-way tracking dive -- I left on (or just before) "ready" of the "ready-set-go" countdown -- totally messed up interpreting the countdown. It looked hopeless at first, staring at skydivers 100 feet above standing in a tailgate. (I flew bellydown for 2 seconds waiting for them to exit, not having yet started my track!) However, at the end, I successfully caught up with the leader by the end of the tracking dive, and was able to move into position #3 behind the leader in the "V" shaped formation, before breakoff! Spetacular jump.

I'm, however, a *very* crappy freeflyer.
(Maybe that will change this year? We shall see.)