billvon 3,006 #1 June 10, 2005 I've noticed a trend here lately. There have been a lot of questions over discrete events and limits. "What altitude should I never cut away below? How far do I pull down the toggles during the flare? Should I do a flat turn or a braked turn if I'm low?" And while they are good subjects of discussion, I think it's important to remember that the objective is NOT to come up with these discrete, separate things to do, or come up with hard-and-fast rules about where to put your hands when you're flaring. Imagine if you learned to drive like this. How far down do you push the brake pedal if you want to stop in 100 feet? Above what speed should you never turn the steering wheel? Is turning or braking a better way to avoid a crash? I think most experienced drivers would answer "it depends" to all of those questions - because they don't have one specific answer. That's not to say that there's no value in telling someone "step on the brake and push it down about 2 inches" when they're learning to drive. That's useful when you are just starting out. But then you have to learn that and move on to be able to coordinate use of the brake with other controls. Same thing in flying. At first students learn to control airspeed with throttle, then they add pitch to the picture. They start learning to turn with aileron only, then they add rudder to coordinate it. For more advanced licenses they learn chandelles, which are maximum performance climbing turns (sort of the aviation equivalent of flat turns) that requires use of all control inputs, not just one or two. Take flat turns. The objective isn't really to be able to do a perfect flat turn through 90 degrees - the objective is to learn the theory behind flat turns and practice it until you can use it almost instinctively. Same thing with flare turns, or front riser landings, or whatever. The objective is that someday, when confronted with (say) a fence appearing in front of you, you can smoothly turn away, flare in a different direction and land safely. You might use a flat turn, or a braked turn, or a flare turn, or even some rear riser, but the person who is going to have the most success is the guy who uses a combination of all three. Take decision altitudes. If you are freeflying, it probably makes sense to have a relatively high decision altitudes, due to the speeds involved and the odds of losing track of altitude. If you are doing hop and pops, you could likely get the same level of safety with a lower decision altitude because a) you're probably not going to lose track of altitude and b) you're not falling as fast. Remember that the objective is to have an open canopy in time to set up for landing. Or take just flaring a canopy. I often hear people asking "I just got a Sabre2 loaded at 1.3 to 1. Should I flare to my shoulders? Or my chest?" And my first thought is always - if you're still thinking of where you should put your hands, you're not ready for a 1.3 to 1 canopy. A flare is a dynamic event, one that is driven by the canopy's speed, descent rate, the surface you're landing on, your weight, and half a dozen other variable. Inputs you can use are your eyes, the feeling of wind on your face, the tension in the brake lines, the feeling of deceleration when you flare, the noise of the wind in the lines - and many of those inputs _have_ to be used to get a good landing. There is no one position for the toggles that will make that good landing happen. So while all these discussions along the lines of "should I do a flat turn or a braked turn?" are useful, keep in mind that the end objective to be able to do both without thinking much about which you are doing. The skills needed to do anything in skydiving are a smooth continuum, not a set of discrete non-overlapping skills that can (or should) be used completely separately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #2 June 10, 2005 Good post... I keep thinking of the Phrase "Fly the canpy."Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #3 June 10, 2005 Excellent post. Ranks right up there with your steps to downsizing article. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #4 June 10, 2005 Great insight Bill. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,323 #5 June 10, 2005 Perhaps make it sticky for awhile?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #6 June 10, 2005 Now that's a good post. I didn't realize that that's been bothering me until you brought it into focus. Trees and forest. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #7 June 11, 2005 Thanks you. I can't count the number of times I've seen someone on this site say "you should always/never do ," then look to the left and see a profile of 150 jumps, and have to wonder of that person's ever even been in that situation. It's pretty rare to hear someone with thousands of jumps and decades in the sport speak in absolutes."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #8 June 18, 2005 How reasonable.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #9 June 19, 2005 Bill, are you implying that we should continue flying through the flare, or thinking while under canopy? Hee! Hee! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #10 June 21, 2005 Well said, Bill. While reading it, it came to mind that if a person was thrown into deep water and tried to tread water using that analytical method they'd drown while deciding to use cupped hands over open hands, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites