Nightingale 0 #26 March 10, 2004 I was a student. This was my second jump ever, and I was having some anxiety issues to begin with, and there were some last minute changes that made it worse, and no time on the ground to think about it, because I got rushed onto the plane. what caused me to change my mind was that five minutes before we got on the plane, the DZ changed the plane from otter to skyvan, and the school changed my jumpmasters, who didn't give me much think time. It was just "oh here's the skyvan exit, lets go!" and then on the ride to altitude, when I had a chance to take a moment to think about what was going on, I realized that I didn't even know the JM's name, and that I wasn't comfortable with the exit, and I kept getting more and more scared, and then around 6,000 feet, I said I wasn't jumping. The JMs could see that I was really shaken up, and just said "okay. your call." but the other people in the plane wouldn't let it go, and the more they told me to jump, the more I said no, and the more freaked out I got. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowie 0 #27 March 10, 2004 QuoteI was a student. This was my second jump ever, and I was having some anxiety issues to begin with, and there were some last minute changes that made it worse, and no time on the ground to think about it, because I got rushed onto the plane. what caused me to change my mind was that five minutes before we got on the plane, the DZ changed the plane from otter to skyvan, and the school changed my jumpmasters, who didn't give me much think time. It was just "oh here's the skyvan exit, lets go!" and then on the ride to altitude, when I had a chance to take a moment to think about what was going on, I realized that I didn't even know the JM's name, and that I wasn't comfortable with the exit, and I kept getting more and more scared, and then around 6,000 feet, I said I wasn't jumping. The JMs could see that I was really shaken up, and just said "okay. your call." but the other people in the plane wouldn't let it go, and the more they told me to jump, the more I said no, and the more freaked out I got. This sort of sounded like every AFF jump I did after the first. I trained at Sydney and I never knew who the JM's were going to be until gear up/ dirt dive time and the plane could be either a beaver, skyvan or otter (this was the same for everyone who trained). I guess it's what your used to. With the exception of people peeling your fingers off the door frame, it's all just encouragement - it's your call always whether you jump or not and I have yet to see anyone make unpleaseant remarks to refusals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #28 March 10, 2004 normally at Perris, the instructor who does your dirt dive is the main JM on the jump. they switched this up on me with someone new as we were getting on the plane. To a newbie, that can really mess with your head, and that's what happened to me. It got to the point where I was scared out of my mind. When I said no at 6,000 feet, the JMs were cool with it, because they saw how freaked I was, accepted it, said I made a good call, and let it go. The people surrounding me continued to pressure me for the next 6,000 feet or so til we got to altitude. Encouragement becomes pressure when it doesn't stop at an appropriate point. As a fun jumper, you do not have to jump with a freaked out student. The JMs do, if the student chooses to jump, so let them handle it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallygator 0 #29 March 10, 2004 Quote was hesitant to jump, and got out anyway because of pressure from the other jumpers in the plane. She had a mal.] I remember wne i first started i was told that i do not have to jump if i don't want to, if you ask and they say no end of disscussion ask once only. pressureing someone into a jump is wrong IMO you don't know the head space they are in, so don't push it and back off. I rade the plane to altitude twice and and landed with the plane because i didn't feel right. no big deal, play safe cheers -------------------------------------------------- who Jah bless Let no man curse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Perky77 0 #30 March 10, 2004 QuoteI said I wasn't jumping. The JMs could see that I was really shaken up, and just said "okay. your call." but the other people in the plane wouldn't let it go, and the more they told me to jump, the more I said no, and the more freaked out I got. Your jumpmasters should have done something about that pressure from "other jumpers", assumingly not instructors or even coaches. "Sacrifice is a part of life. It is supposed to be. It's not something you regret . It's something to aspire to." Mitch Albom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #31 March 10, 2004 Changed plane, changed JM, changed exit. Lots of induced stress, it seems. They didn't charge you for anything, did they?Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #32 March 10, 2004 they gave me a discount on the tandem that I did that same day, and a discount on the repeat of level 2, which pretty much covered what I'd paid for the first go-round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gerryfuss 0 #33 March 10, 2004 I was on a load with an instructor and another jumper who was on her 2nd or 3rd jump after completing PFF. Up to this point she had only jumped from an Otter and this jump was from a Cessna. She was nervous about the cessna and the exit altitude (5500 ft instead of 13500 ft). I exited first to show her how to exit. Once under canopy I noticed no other canopies above me. She had felt uncomfortable and decided not to jump. When I talked to her after I told her not to feel bad about not jumping and that you should never do something that your not comfortable with. If it's an issue you want to tackle then theres always next time. This may be less of an issue but last year I saw enough chops, and some of them were from students who had a few line twists or a brake happened to release and there first instict was to cut away. Some jumpers on the ground felt this was unneccessary but I think they did what they felt was right at the time and shouldn't take have to take shit for it. Better to cut away then to try and correct a problem into the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #34 March 10, 2004 Given that a jumper that isn't 100% in the game represents a risk to others in the sky, it's not only one's perogative to not jump if feeling bad, I think it's a responsibility. When I'm in the water with others (I often dive solo), the rule is anyone can call the dive at any moment, for any reason. And they don't have to defend it. Obviously if it becomes a bad habit, they'll have to look for a new dive buddy, but that happens *after*. I think on the plane, you encourage a couple times, if they're not wavering on the "no," you tell them you'll see them on the ground. Otherwise you'll trigger their fight or flight response and they cease to be able to even think rationally about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pccoder 0 #35 March 11, 2004 Oh, you are SO right, it's fun to f**k with the tandems!! PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #36 March 11, 2004 Did my first solo jump last Saturday (Jump #9). After a fly over, I'm first up, pulling at 4,500, followed by a woman pulling at 5,000 and 2 tandems. I started spotting as soon as the green light went steady, and 3 seconds into it, the woman yells "go, go, go"; feeling I wasn't done with my spotting (checking the airspace after id'ing the dz), I took another few seconds to make sure I felt ok with the airspace, then went. Couldn't find her on the ground though. I would have loved to talk to her. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheBile 0 #37 March 11, 2004 One area where being PUSHED out rather than ENCOURAGED out of the aircraft is accepted is the military. This was clearly apparent when my two AFF JM's got together. One was ex-military and learned to jump in the army, the other wasn't. The difference in the way they both spoke to students highlights the differene between encouragement and pushing. I wish I hadn't had the ex-squaddie as my JM. Comments like "If you'd have gone over on your back we would have been in screwed" on AFF 2 didn't help my confidence none. The other guy was much more tactful but no less instructive in getting his message across. People should not be slated for riding down with the aircraft, even after encouraging words at alti didn't help overcome whatever concerns they had at the time.Gerb I stir feelings in others they themselves don't understand. KA'CHOW ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,074 #38 March 11, 2004 >One area where being PUSHED out rather than ENCOURAGED out of >the aircraft is accepted is the military. And there's also a distinction between hesitation in the door and not wanting to jump. If someone gets to 6000 feet, or even jump run, and they don't want to jump, no problem. But as soon as the other JM is out the door and they say "check in!", they're going unless there's a really serious problem (like he pops his reserve in the door.) That's not because anyone wants to pressure him into going, but beyond a certain point in the exit it's safer to continue the exit than abort it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj-seus 0 #39 March 11, 2004 greets i remember 2 weeks ago, during my AFF, there was a young guy doing his first tandem (had kind of a 'tough-guy image'), exiting right after me... as soon as the door opened, he said in the LOUDEST, most nervous voice I could imagine... "oooooooh SH**********T! he then started getting a little more talkative, saying things like, "well, what happens if I don't jump? Like, what if I don't, like, JUMP?" TM: "Ah, don't worry, you'll jump! It'll be great! You'll do fine!" after a little more encouragement from the jumpers that were already on their way out, I made my way to the door, and I look back at this kid and he's saying, "well, I'm just gonna sit here for a while, and think about it..." TM "hey buddy, you see these clips holding you and me together? well guess what - I'M JUMPING!" (of course this was all still done in good fun. If the kid had said "no" when they did the final check in, he would've had a plane-ride down.) I climbed out to do a hanging exit, and the last thing I watched as I dropped was this poor kid's eyes as HUGE as dinner plates, watching me wave to him as a fall out of view... :) btw, he LOVED the jump... and his little bit of pre-jump jitters became our-little-secret.. ciao for now -dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clownburner 0 #40 March 11, 2004 Yes, the door monster often gets the toughest-acting tandems the worst.. I remember it well. I had a heck of a time with my first few AFF floating exits, I was totally freaked by hanging outside the door. An instructor finally pointed out to me that I was going to leave the plane anyway, so if I fell off it wasn't that big a deal. After that I calmed down a lot about it. 7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygypsie 2 #41 May 6, 2009 The Posting of Mar 09, 2004 was not posted by AVOR7..it was posted by his his then girlfriend Skygirl1..who had access to his info..this chick needs to be watched out for. She claims to have ratings as a Tandem Instructor, Videographer & Manifestor for USPA/ DZ's all over the Country & has tagged herself as; She, in photos on profiles on My Space [copied others skydive photos] & has given inaccurate info on her profile on dropzone.com. Her USPA membership & class A license [45 jumps] has been confirmed by USPA; as recently as, 05/01/09, as EXPIRED since 06/30/06. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #42 May 6, 2009 Quote The Posting of Mar 09, 2004... Holy post bump Batman! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #43 May 6, 2009 QuoteThe Posting of Mar 09, 2004 was not posted by AVOR7..it was posted by his his then girlfriend Skygirl1 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are AVOR7's current girlfriend. Oh boy. Drama. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Baksteen 84 #44 May 6, 2009 But, er - the ancient post was even signed 'skygirl1' so i wonder what you are whining about? Quote Quote The Posting of Mar 09, 2004 was not posted by AVOR7..it was posted by his his then girlfriend Skygirl1 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are AVOR7's current girlfriend. Oh boy. Drama. Well, it's a difference of about eight dots Anyone else want some popcorn?"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygypsie 2 #45 May 6, 2009 the purpose of my 'whining' is exactly what I mentioned; regardless, of my current relationship status. Though the postings are ancient, it is current news that this same individual who had never had authorization then or ever to place postings of another user of dropzone.com, is an expired member of USPA & holds an expired Class A & is continuing to fraudently pass herself off as a current USPA Skydiver to include holding a Tandem Instructor's Rating & stealing others identities. Is that something you condone as a Skydiver or user of dropzone.com ? If so I'm sure she'd enjoy hearing from you; as you seem to be interested enough in the drama, to take the time to comment & post & to count dots ! PS: dots [ or extended periods]are an accepted punctuation of college courses of ENGLISH grammar...they indicate an emphasis of pause of thought or continuation of a statement...duh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #46 May 6, 2009 To whom is she passing herself off as a Tandem I? She hasn't posted here since 2004. You're coming off a little stalkery. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Baksteen 84 #47 May 6, 2009 The comment about the dots makes fun of FrflyPimpDaddy's annoyance on page 1. Quote Though the postings are ancient, it is current news that this same individual who had never had authorization then or ever to place postings of another user of dropzone.com, is an expired member of USPA & holds an expired Class A & is continuing to fraudently pass herself off as a current USPA Skydiver to include holding a Tandem Instructor's Rating & stealing others identities. Is that something you condone as a Skydiver or user of dropzone.com ? If so I'm sure she'd enjoy hearing from you; as you seem to be interested enough in the drama, to take the time to comment & post & to count dots ! Do I condone 'such behaviour'? Of course not..if it's really happening. All I see here are wild accusations without any references to back them up. Kudos to you for filling out your profile but I notice the one you are accusing didn't. All that's there is a username and some email addy. So who IS it that you're accusing? Can you blame me for not taking you seriously? Quote accepted punctuation of college courses of ENGLISH grammar I know knothing about college level ENGLISH grammar pronounkiation or speling - As I go along I just make it up "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #48 May 6, 2009 I know knothing about college level ENGLISH grammar pronounkiation or speling - As I go along I just make it up Me too...............all that fancy book learnin' ain't healthy. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Perky77 0 #30 March 10, 2004 QuoteI said I wasn't jumping. The JMs could see that I was really shaken up, and just said "okay. your call." but the other people in the plane wouldn't let it go, and the more they told me to jump, the more I said no, and the more freaked out I got. Your jumpmasters should have done something about that pressure from "other jumpers", assumingly not instructors or even coaches. "Sacrifice is a part of life. It is supposed to be. It's not something you regret . It's something to aspire to." Mitch Albom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #31 March 10, 2004 Changed plane, changed JM, changed exit. Lots of induced stress, it seems. They didn't charge you for anything, did they?Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #32 March 10, 2004 they gave me a discount on the tandem that I did that same day, and a discount on the repeat of level 2, which pretty much covered what I'd paid for the first go-round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerryfuss 0 #33 March 10, 2004 I was on a load with an instructor and another jumper who was on her 2nd or 3rd jump after completing PFF. Up to this point she had only jumped from an Otter and this jump was from a Cessna. She was nervous about the cessna and the exit altitude (5500 ft instead of 13500 ft). I exited first to show her how to exit. Once under canopy I noticed no other canopies above me. She had felt uncomfortable and decided not to jump. When I talked to her after I told her not to feel bad about not jumping and that you should never do something that your not comfortable with. If it's an issue you want to tackle then theres always next time. This may be less of an issue but last year I saw enough chops, and some of them were from students who had a few line twists or a brake happened to release and there first instict was to cut away. Some jumpers on the ground felt this was unneccessary but I think they did what they felt was right at the time and shouldn't take have to take shit for it. Better to cut away then to try and correct a problem into the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 March 10, 2004 Given that a jumper that isn't 100% in the game represents a risk to others in the sky, it's not only one's perogative to not jump if feeling bad, I think it's a responsibility. When I'm in the water with others (I often dive solo), the rule is anyone can call the dive at any moment, for any reason. And they don't have to defend it. Obviously if it becomes a bad habit, they'll have to look for a new dive buddy, but that happens *after*. I think on the plane, you encourage a couple times, if they're not wavering on the "no," you tell them you'll see them on the ground. Otherwise you'll trigger their fight or flight response and they cease to be able to even think rationally about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #35 March 11, 2004 Oh, you are SO right, it's fun to f**k with the tandems!! PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #36 March 11, 2004 Did my first solo jump last Saturday (Jump #9). After a fly over, I'm first up, pulling at 4,500, followed by a woman pulling at 5,000 and 2 tandems. I started spotting as soon as the green light went steady, and 3 seconds into it, the woman yells "go, go, go"; feeling I wasn't done with my spotting (checking the airspace after id'ing the dz), I took another few seconds to make sure I felt ok with the airspace, then went. Couldn't find her on the ground though. I would have loved to talk to her. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBile 0 #37 March 11, 2004 One area where being PUSHED out rather than ENCOURAGED out of the aircraft is accepted is the military. This was clearly apparent when my two AFF JM's got together. One was ex-military and learned to jump in the army, the other wasn't. The difference in the way they both spoke to students highlights the differene between encouragement and pushing. I wish I hadn't had the ex-squaddie as my JM. Comments like "If you'd have gone over on your back we would have been in screwed" on AFF 2 didn't help my confidence none. The other guy was much more tactful but no less instructive in getting his message across. People should not be slated for riding down with the aircraft, even after encouraging words at alti didn't help overcome whatever concerns they had at the time.Gerb I stir feelings in others they themselves don't understand. KA'CHOW ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,074 #38 March 11, 2004 >One area where being PUSHED out rather than ENCOURAGED out of >the aircraft is accepted is the military. And there's also a distinction between hesitation in the door and not wanting to jump. If someone gets to 6000 feet, or even jump run, and they don't want to jump, no problem. But as soon as the other JM is out the door and they say "check in!", they're going unless there's a really serious problem (like he pops his reserve in the door.) That's not because anyone wants to pressure him into going, but beyond a certain point in the exit it's safer to continue the exit than abort it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dj-seus 0 #39 March 11, 2004 greets i remember 2 weeks ago, during my AFF, there was a young guy doing his first tandem (had kind of a 'tough-guy image'), exiting right after me... as soon as the door opened, he said in the LOUDEST, most nervous voice I could imagine... "oooooooh SH**********T! he then started getting a little more talkative, saying things like, "well, what happens if I don't jump? Like, what if I don't, like, JUMP?" TM: "Ah, don't worry, you'll jump! It'll be great! You'll do fine!" after a little more encouragement from the jumpers that were already on their way out, I made my way to the door, and I look back at this kid and he's saying, "well, I'm just gonna sit here for a while, and think about it..." TM "hey buddy, you see these clips holding you and me together? well guess what - I'M JUMPING!" (of course this was all still done in good fun. If the kid had said "no" when they did the final check in, he would've had a plane-ride down.) I climbed out to do a hanging exit, and the last thing I watched as I dropped was this poor kid's eyes as HUGE as dinner plates, watching me wave to him as a fall out of view... :) btw, he LOVED the jump... and his little bit of pre-jump jitters became our-little-secret.. ciao for now -dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #40 March 11, 2004 Yes, the door monster often gets the toughest-acting tandems the worst.. I remember it well. I had a heck of a time with my first few AFF floating exits, I was totally freaked by hanging outside the door. An instructor finally pointed out to me that I was going to leave the plane anyway, so if I fell off it wasn't that big a deal. After that I calmed down a lot about it. 7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #41 May 6, 2009 The Posting of Mar 09, 2004 was not posted by AVOR7..it was posted by his his then girlfriend Skygirl1..who had access to his info..this chick needs to be watched out for. She claims to have ratings as a Tandem Instructor, Videographer & Manifestor for USPA/ DZ's all over the Country & has tagged herself as; She, in photos on profiles on My Space [copied others skydive photos] & has given inaccurate info on her profile on dropzone.com. Her USPA membership & class A license [45 jumps] has been confirmed by USPA; as recently as, 05/01/09, as EXPIRED since 06/30/06. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #42 May 6, 2009 Quote The Posting of Mar 09, 2004... Holy post bump Batman! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #43 May 6, 2009 QuoteThe Posting of Mar 09, 2004 was not posted by AVOR7..it was posted by his his then girlfriend Skygirl1 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are AVOR7's current girlfriend. Oh boy. Drama. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #44 May 6, 2009 But, er - the ancient post was even signed 'skygirl1' so i wonder what you are whining about? Quote Quote The Posting of Mar 09, 2004 was not posted by AVOR7..it was posted by his his then girlfriend Skygirl1 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are AVOR7's current girlfriend. Oh boy. Drama. Well, it's a difference of about eight dots Anyone else want some popcorn?"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #45 May 6, 2009 the purpose of my 'whining' is exactly what I mentioned; regardless, of my current relationship status. Though the postings are ancient, it is current news that this same individual who had never had authorization then or ever to place postings of another user of dropzone.com, is an expired member of USPA & holds an expired Class A & is continuing to fraudently pass herself off as a current USPA Skydiver to include holding a Tandem Instructor's Rating & stealing others identities. Is that something you condone as a Skydiver or user of dropzone.com ? If so I'm sure she'd enjoy hearing from you; as you seem to be interested enough in the drama, to take the time to comment & post & to count dots ! PS: dots [ or extended periods]are an accepted punctuation of college courses of ENGLISH grammar...they indicate an emphasis of pause of thought or continuation of a statement...duh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #46 May 6, 2009 To whom is she passing herself off as a Tandem I? She hasn't posted here since 2004. You're coming off a little stalkery. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #47 May 6, 2009 The comment about the dots makes fun of FrflyPimpDaddy's annoyance on page 1. Quote Though the postings are ancient, it is current news that this same individual who had never had authorization then or ever to place postings of another user of dropzone.com, is an expired member of USPA & holds an expired Class A & is continuing to fraudently pass herself off as a current USPA Skydiver to include holding a Tandem Instructor's Rating & stealing others identities. Is that something you condone as a Skydiver or user of dropzone.com ? If so I'm sure she'd enjoy hearing from you; as you seem to be interested enough in the drama, to take the time to comment & post & to count dots ! Do I condone 'such behaviour'? Of course not..if it's really happening. All I see here are wild accusations without any references to back them up. Kudos to you for filling out your profile but I notice the one you are accusing didn't. All that's there is a username and some email addy. So who IS it that you're accusing? Can you blame me for not taking you seriously? Quote accepted punctuation of college courses of ENGLISH grammar I know knothing about college level ENGLISH grammar pronounkiation or speling - As I go along I just make it up "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #48 May 6, 2009 I know knothing about college level ENGLISH grammar pronounkiation or speling - As I go along I just make it up Me too...............all that fancy book learnin' ain't healthy. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #49 May 6, 2009 quite the opposite ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #50 May 6, 2009 Liberty-Twardo, is that you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
