Exit Order

[tetra316 0]

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I know what you are saying, just that so many instructors/people ingrain in students and upjumpers that you are NEVER to track up or down the line of flight. It made me do a double take to read that.

Usually the instructors are teaching that to student/novices who are going to spend 30 or more seconds tracking. I think you are right that that kind of wisdom gets mis-transferred to all tracking, including the 5-7 second variety that follows group freefall jumps.

Most definitely. I hear it said all the time among freeflyers and RW groups when discussing break off. It's a good general rule but sometimes can be misinterpreted at the safety of the group you are jumping with.

[DJL 235]

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at my dz we consider anyone pulling above 4 a high puller and put them in front of students. anything 4 or below just hop in the line up where you belong. at my dz we are just getting an otter this summer and we did some research and found that most dz's do
flat flyers(biggest to smallest)
ff's(biggest to smallest)
high pullers
students
tandems
tandem with video
birdman/skyboards

I see most people put out tandem with vid before those with no vid. That way the lower opening vidiot will be closer to the spot and helps him get back.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[rehmwa 2]

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So you are saying it's okay to track up or down the line of flight if there are people out before and after you...? Or you just don't trust it to create the separation for opening..?

If I'm in a 3way or bigger - I'm turning straight from center and getting away from the people in my group. Whatever direction that points me, so be it.

If the next group is so close that this is an issue, then we have a problem with delays between groups.

So yes to the first question. It's ok to track up and down the flight line when you're getting away from 3 or 7 or 15 other people in your group.

To the 2nd (do I not trust it to create separation?) - I don't trust that 2way in front of me or behind me to actually track off the flight line. Even if they have the best intentions. If they actually do it, then that's fine, but I don't expect them to. Nor would I shorten my exit delay to something unsafe on the assumption that they will always track in the correct direction.

Go find Kallend's website - it's excellent on these discussiions

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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It's a good general rule but sometimes can be misinterpreted at the safety of the group you are jumping with.

It's a CRAPPY general rule for exactly that reason. If some idiot in the 16 way is supposed to track up/down the flight line because on break off that's where he should point, then he's trying to kill the other 15 by veering into the adjacent guy's tracking line. All because people don't understand drift and exit separation.

Let me put it kinder - tracking off the flight line is something you can do for yourself to help the cause - provided you are on a solo or 2way with someone else you trust - but never count on another group or individual to do it. Just like counting on some newbie to open high - you can't count on it.

Now take the 2 way head down - on breakoff, you pull away from the other and usually to a back track for a bit. Then you flip over and finish your track. Is it a good idea to then veer off right or left at that point because you find yourself on the flight line? I don't think so.

Proper separation and exit order makes the whole 'off the flight line' a moot point.

Let's leave it for tracking dives where it's very appropriate.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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Let's leave it for tracking dives where it's very appropriate.

But the line of flight makes a great slalom course when tracking.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[gofast_ER 0]

Oh oh I know! The first person goes first. The second person goes second. The third person goes third and well, it goes from there.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[kallend 2,026]

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Go find Kallend's website - it's excellent on these discussiions

Here.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SpectreDriver 0]

This thread is complex-- I am a simple thinker, so here we go:

When I first started jumping, FreeFlyers always exited FIRST, cause they fell faster and would be WELL out of the way long before the Flat-flyers exited, did their thing, and pulled.

At some point in the last 3-5 years, this seems to have changed at every DZ I visit.

But the old way still makes sense to me. Isn't there a much higher chance of a free-flyer suddenly showing up in a group of bellyflyers as they are tracking/pulling, than the other way around?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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But the old way still makes sense to me. Isn't there a much higher chance of a free-flyer suddenly showing up in a group of bellyflyers as they are tracking/pulling, than the other way around?

No.

[billvon 2,989]

> Isn't there a much higher chance of a free-flyer suddenly showing up in a
>group of bellyflyers as they are tracking/pulling, than the other way
>around?

No, not when jump run is into the wind (which it usually is.)

[timbre 0]

If I understand it correctly, the theory is to ensure horizontal separation even at the expense of vertical separation. Belly groups will drift further downwind (as they're in the air longer) than FFs and so you put them out first so they can't drift horizontally into the next group's space. This is all assuming an upwind jumprun, of course.

Vertical separation shouldn't ever be counted on -- differences in pull heights, snivel times, and malfunctions can make vertical separation moot.

[IanHarrop 41]

Look up a bit a Kallend's post

Click on this: Physics of Skydiving presentation (Powerpoint, Feb. 2005)

Everything in one place but you don't want to wade through all the science, I like this summary:

Separation can be achieved with any exit order.
BUT
If the freefliers go first, adjacent groups CONVERGE. This is not fail-safe!
If RW groups go first, groups DIVERGE, a fail-safe situation. It is easier and takes less thought to achieve horizontal separation if freefliers exit after RW groups

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[SpectreDriver 0]

Thanks!
Makes sense.

[kallend 2,026]

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This thread is complex-- I am a simple thinker, so here we go:

Simple solutions to complex problems are often wrong.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.