Would you buy from...

[skybytch 273]

Once upon a time, there was this skydiver who was really good at freeflying. So good that several skydiving equipment manufacturers were happy to give him free rigs and jumpsuits and helmets and such, because it was good for their business to have their gear on him.

One day this skydiver decided that he was unhappy with one of his sponsors because they refused to give him a super custom item to use at one event. This item would have cost his sponsor twice what the normal one does to build. He was offered a substantial discount on the item but chose not to accept that offer.

A short time later, the company that refused to give him (yet another) super custom item got a phone call from a guy in another state. He said he was working with the above referenced skydiver on a different item and needed particular materials in a specific color that the company had the only available stock of.

Apparently he didn't know that he was talking to a skydiver instead of a whuffo. The person who answered the phone knew enough about the sport to also know that the particular materials being asked about wouldn't work in the application the guy said it was to be for. And that person also knew enough other skydivers to know that the sponsored jumper had been talking about switching sponsors, and that the company he intended to switch to was located in the same state and run by someone with the same first name as the guy who called about making the purchase.

So the person informed the boss of the situation. The boss chose to believe the story and sell the guy the materials. The employee really didn't think that was a good idea but packaged it up for shipment anyway - and included a few words expressing disappointment in the sponsored jumper and the other guy for going behind the original sponsoring companies back to get the materials needed for the new sponsor to make his new super custom item.

Upon receipt of the package, the sponsored jumper called the boss at the original company. He insisted that he wasn't going to change sponsors and that the employee who had included the note must be lying.

The employee ended up getting fired a week or so later. The sponsored jumper was using the item made by his new sponsor within a month or so. So not only did the sponsored jumper lie to get the item he wanted, his lie also resulted in a good person losing their income.

Would you buy something from the "new sponsor" if you knew that the above had happened?

[catfishhunter 2]

The employee should have kept ther mouth shut to the customer. I would have fired them as well. What was she/he thinking?

As to the ethics of the company and the jumper? I wouldn't do buisness with either of them not because the knucklehead got fired but because they couldn't be trusted.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[wildcard451 0]

How is the new sponsor in any way guilty in any of this?

[rhys 0]

It has nothing to do with the new sponsor, it has to do with the attitude and professionalsm of the sponsored guy.

It is up to the new sponsor to decide whether they are happy with thier new investment.

It is up to you to decide if you like the quality, design and customer service of that particular product.

Maybe the old sponsor will be better off not having someone on thier team that has a bad and unprofessional attitude towards them.

Just my $0.02

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[jtnesbitt 0]

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The employee should have kept ther mouth shut to the customer. I would have fired them as well. What was she/he thinking?

+1

Not only did the employee overstep their boundaries but they chose to act in defiance of their boss. EITHER action by itself is ground for firing in my opinion. In this case the employee in question did both in a single act.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[skybytch 273]

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What was she/he thinking?

I think it's fairly obvious that the employee was already unhappy in the position and knew when putting the note in the package that losing the job over it was a possibility.

It is possible, though, that it was done because the employee didn't think it was right for the jumper and the company to flat out lie and to let them know that while they may have gotten away with it in the employee's bosses eyes, they hadn't gotten away with it in the employee's eyes. Not that what the employee thought mattered in the slightest; we all know that the boss is always right.

[skybytch 273]

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How is the new sponsor in any way guilty in any of this?

He called the old sponsor and told a bold faced lie, one that was easy for any savvy skydiver to see through, to get the materials he needed to make the item for the jumper.

Sorry I didn't make that clearer in the first post.

[skybytch 273]

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Maybe the old sponsor will be better off not having someone on thier team that has a bad and unprofessional attitude towards them.

You are probably correct.

The point of the story is not to defend the ex-employee (who screwed up and then paid for their mistake) or bash the employer (who is entitled to employ whoever he'd like and then fire them for whatever legal reason he chooses). I'm curious as to what other skydivers think about doing business with people/companies that will lie to get what they want.

[jtnesbitt 0]

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It is possible, though, that it was done because the employee didn't think it was right for the jumper and the company to flat out lie and to let them know that while they may have gotten away with it in the employee's bosses eyes, they hadn't gotten away with it in the employee's eyes.

I see this happen a lot, and it never ends well. People have a natural instinct to let people know when they are right...its called pride. People in business have to struggle with it every day because while you can be proud of your work and proud of your job sometimes you have to swallow your pride for the sake of getting the job done.

The best advice i give to people dealing with situations like this is to ask themselves two questions before taking action.

"What do I have to gain from this action?"
"What do I have to lose from this action?"

If the employee would have asked themselves these questions they most likely would have made a different decision. They had nothing to gain but their job to lose.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[MakeItHappen 15]

There are too many pronouns to follow the story of who was doing/saying what.
Try it with Jumper A, B, C and Mfg 1, 2, 3 etc

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[Rick 67]

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What was she/he thinking?

I think it's fairly obvious that the employee was already unhappy in the position and knew when putting the note in the package that losing the job over it was a possibility.

It is possible, though, that it was done because the employee didn't think it was right for the jumper and the company to flat out lie and to let them know that while they may have gotten away with it in the employee's bosses eyes, they hadn't gotten away with it in the employee's eyes. Not that what the employee thought mattered in the slightest; we all know that the boss is always right.

If the employee does not like the way the ownner does businees they are free to quit. When they possibly sabotage the relationship of the owner with a customer they deserve to be fired.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[skybytch 273]

Right. You're tardy to the party. We've already established that the employee's actions were wrong, and that the employer had every right to fire them. Heck, even the employee agrees with that.

The question is - would you buy something from a company that would lie to get something they need so they can get a big name jumper to wear their shit?

[jtnesbitt 0]

Jan:

Sponsored jumper was sponsored by MFG1. Asked for custom item from MFG1 and was refused. Sponsored jumper went to MFG2 to get custom work done. MFG2 called MFG1 to get materials. The employee in question works for MFG1 and is also a skydiver took the phone call from MFG2. Employee is question completed order after getting approval from boss but included a note back to MFG2 with the ordered materials. MFG2 got mad at note and called MFG1 to complain. MFG1 fired employee.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[Rick 67]

Sorry I would not knowingly do business with a company that lies to a manufacturer to get material to help them steal a sponsored skydiver from that manufacturer.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[skybytch 273]

Sponsored jumper was sponsored by MFG1. Asked for custom item from MFG1 and was refused. Sponsored jumper went to MFG2 to get sponsored by them, as he'd planned to even before asking MFG1 for custom item. MFG2 and sponsored jumper called MFG1 to get materials. The employee in question works for MFG1 and is also a skydiver took the phone calls from the sponsored jumper and MFG2. Employee in question completed order after letting boss know the back story but included a note to sponsored jumper with the ordered materials. Sponsored jumper got mad at note and called MFG1 to lie further. MFG1 fired employee.

Fixed it.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Sponsored jumper was sponsored by MFG1. Asked for custom item from MFG1 and was refused. Sponsored jumper went to MFG2 to get sponsored by them, as he'd planned to even before asking MFG1 for custom item. MFG2 and sponsored jumper called MFG1 to get materials. The employee in question works for MFG1 and is also a skydiver took the phone calls from the sponsored jumper and MFG2. Employee in question completed order after letting boss know the back story but included a note to sponsored jumper with the ordered materials. Sponsored jumper got mad at note and called MFG1 to lie further. MFG1 fired employee.

Fixed it.

Does 'back story' = "Sponsored jumper was sponsored by MFG1. Asked for custom item from MFG1 and was refused (by who? the MFG1 or the employee?). Sponsored jumper went to MFG2 to get sponsored by them, as he'd (the sponsored jumper?) planned to even before asking MFG1 for custom item. MFG2 and sponsored jumper called MFG1 (or the employee of MFG1?) to get materials."
Did MFG2 & the sponsored jumper call the employee of MFG1 or talk to MFG1 directly?
Why was a 'back story' necessary?

What does the 'note' state?

Start over and walk through the events with nouns and no pronouns.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[DigitalDave 0]

This ..

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and included a few words expressing disappointment

.. is what got him fired. Not this ..

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his lie also resulted in a good person losing their income

There is no employee "right" to give personal opinions to customers .. at least not in my state.

[mjosparky 4]

Way too much drama. Skydivers tend to think the world revolves around them.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[PhreeZone 20]

Agreed.

I know of a company that failed to completely pay another skydiver for work they did for the company. Does that mean that as a third party I need to go around telling everyone not to buy their product?

I know every company has dirty little secrets that are nothing more then drama to everyone else except the 2 or 3 people that are tied to the issue.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

So the sponsored jumper (SJ) wanted - let's say - a custom canopy for free. And when he couldn't get it he went to MFG2 who then called MFG1 and said he wanted to make - again, let's say - a custom jumpsuit and needed the special color zeroP to make this jumpsuit out of.

Do I understand the basics correctly?

Was MFG1 (boss, not employee) so ignorant he didn't know what MFG2 was doing? Or did he figure SJ was going to go away and was more trouble than he was worth?

Did SJ go to MFG2 or stay with MFG1?

Leaving out the employee stuff (the note was a mistake and a valid reason to get fired, lies or not IMO)

If the above is a correct then both MFG2 and SJ are out of line IMO.
It doesn't mean I wouldn't do business with them, but they'd be starting off with a "negative" and would have to make up some of that to come out ahead.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Squeak 17]

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How is the new sponsor in any way guilty in any of this?

That was my take. the Sponsored jumper is the tool not the company wanting to do the sponsoring
Just read lisa's follow-up.
But as to buying from Mfg2, sure if they have what i want at the right price and service level..

Many Many companies do low level espionage with their market competitors, there's nothing new there.
I'd have a much bigger issue if they were lying to their customers.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[JohnnyD 0]

Sounds like MFG1:
a.) Can't meet the needs of the sponsored jumper
b.) Has shitty disgruntled employees
- possible correlation between the two?

Sounds like sponsored jumper:
a.) Has a sponsor unable to supply him with what he needs
b.) Is willing to find a sponsor who can

Conclusion:
If you can't take care of your customers, there are plenty of other people who can.

[Squeak 17]

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Sounds like MFG1:
a.) Can't meet the needs of the sponsored jumper
b.) Has shitty disgruntled employees
- possible correlation between the two?

Sounds like sponsored jumper:
a.) Has a sponsor unable to supply him with what he needs
b.) Is willing to find a sponsor who can

Conclusion:
If you can't take care of your customers, there are plenty of other people who can.

I think you may be confusing NEEDS with WANTS, it sounds like the sponsored jumper was getting all "skygoddy greedy.."
But we only know a limited version of the events

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[muff528 3]

Just my opinion----

MFG1 may determine the level of sponsorship he is willing to provide. Super-custom item may or may not have been unreasonable. The offer of a "substantial discount" was probably reasonable. But, we don't know the agreement made between MFG1 and the sponsored jumper.

MFG2 did not need to provide any explanation for his need for the material. Many companies, even those in direct competition, sometimes will help each other out when a particular item is not readily available from suppliers for some reason. They may one day need that favor returned. Best to get along, especially in an industry where everyone knows everyone else.

The employee informed the boss and that was the extent of his responsibility to his company. With regard to this issue, any further action or contact with MFG2 or the SJ, would have been the bosses job. Firing the employee may or may not have been a little harsh but within the rights of MFG1. We don't know if this was the only problem with the employee or if this was the "last straw".

The sponsored jumper probably should have been more "up front" with MFG1 about his expectations or renegotiated his agreement. He probably should realize that skygods in search of sponsorships are a dime a dozen. MFG2, if he elects to "sponsor" the SJ, will do so knowing that this particular SJ may "step out" on him at some point in the future and can customize any agreement based on that knowledge.

The only loser in this case is the employee who overstepped his boundaries, even if he thought he was doing the right thing.

Yes, I'd buy from MFG2 if they offered a quality product at a good price.

Edited to add--- Maybe the custom item was outside the scope of the sponsorship agreement and MFG2 simply agreed to provide the item to the SJ for the event. This may or may not have been known to MFG1 and may not have affected their agreement anyway.

[LongWayToFall 0]

What was the original agreement between MFG1 and sponsored jumper regarding sponsoring of gear and for how long? If they had an agreement for X dollars of equipment per month, and for 1 year for instance, then it just depends on who broke the agreement.