Moving off student gear this weekend!

[Glitch 0]

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You may be thinking of the breaked approach...

No, I was thinking exactly what I wrote AFAIK. Re-read my post...

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.....flare to hard and collapse the canopy

I didnt' say this, you did.

I'm more than willing to take corrective critism and learn from others, as the good Lord knows I've made my fair share of mistakes (hence, my username ). Hell, I could diatribe my skydiving experiences, which began in 1982 btw. ...or detail out a few times where I rubbed elbows with the Reaper; landing in a cemetary among the tombstones at night, or when I found myself cranking points in a 4-way at

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[freeatlast 0]

Please listen to all that has been posted and seriously consider another choice of canopy.

Losing money sucks - but suffering a serious injury (or worse) sucks more.

If you do not believe anyone posting here take a look at the reviews of the heatwave here on DZ.COM.

Quotes:-

1."Needs to be "flown" all the way through landing"

2."Flies super fast and turns even faster"

3."It turns very fast on toggles or front risers"

4."It is not a predictable canopy and I would not suggest it for learning canopy piloting or swooping as it requires constant control, and has a short recovery arc which is not forgiving, until landing but for pure fun with an experienced pilot it was enormous fun"

5."Wow! Decidedly aggressive"

6."i recommend these canopy to those who have jumped a high performance canopy before"

7."It does not want to bow tie as much as say a stiletto, but will if you hold deep breaks long enough"

8."This is not a novice canopy"

9."I had line twists a couple of times while I was working on the packing"

10."It will, however, stall and recover quite radically of you are not careful. It is very easy to cause one side to stall first if you have on toggle just the slightest bit deeper than the other."

11."Incredible long surf, but too fast for my skill level"

12."My rigger jumped it and said it's over all performance was superior to her Velocity"

13."Openings are gentle and on heading ONLY if I am square in the harness and with riser pulled over nose"

14."respective of performance it is much better than the PD Stilletto"

I found all of these reviews here in the gear section within 10 mins without trying.

These were all posted several years ago but the comments are still valid.

This is a high performance canopy that could easily bite you ...

Think again ...

Its YOUR LIFE ...

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I weigh 135 and I know it's a big change. I got it way cheap. 700 for it and a cypress II.

If you manage to break yourself you could easily spend 10X what you saved to cover the difference between your salary and disability insurance pay-out, health insurance co-insurance, and health insurance deductible.

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The owner and all the staff said they feel comfortable with my progress and said they feel confident. They said well be very careful and put a radio back on me for the first few just in case it's needed. Anything you guys recommend for this jump?

The first and following jumps into a wide open field are not a big deal. You'll enjoy the responsiveness and flare power.

The issue is that ellipticals are built to be significantly more responsive to control input so pulling too hard on one toggle will quickly point them at the ground whether or not that's what you want.

You don't have the muscle memory from experience to avoid over-controlling it when something unexpected happens at low altitude, like some one "cuts you off" in the landing area or you don't notice obstacles when landing out until you're 50 feet off the ground.

You have yet to develop important survival skills like 90 degree flat turns from 50', and the elliptical tendency to dive means a much greater penalty when you get that wrong (you and the canopy hitting the ground at the same time is a lot worse than any sort of landing where the canopy is still over your head where a PLF avoids a lot of injuries and the ones it doesn't tend to be in your leg bones that usually heal well).

Plenty of people have unintentionally flown elliptical canopies into the ground.

Ellipticals are also a lot more responsive at opening time and need to be flown through it. Bad body position or failure to deal with issues will produce line twists and a spinning malfunction.

This is why people like Brian Germain forbid the use of their elliptical designs by people with fewer than 300 jumps regardless of wing loading. Other countries have such restrictions at a national level.

Many elliptical parachutes have a minimum wing loading which you're under.

The inherent roll axis instability can also make landing more difficult.

[buff 0]

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The owner and all the staff said they feel comfortable with my progress and said they feel confident. They said well be very careful and put a radio back on me for the first few just in case it's needed.

I didn't realize that Truman Sparks had moved the school to Midland.

My advice to you is, "Turn your radio WAY UP Mr. Hicks".

And put me on the board for $5 too just because I don't ride anything as cool as a 'Busa or fly a Velo yet but I do listen to canopy pilots with a shit-ton of experience.

Edited - I have a perfectly good Sabre 170 that I bought for my 1st main. I was holding it for someone at our DZ but I'd make you a deal if you want it and don't jump that HW. You would load it at about .9 and you can lean everything you need to advance on a Sabre w/o the unforgiving risks of an eliptical. PM me if interested. (Now I feel better about tossing in my $5.)

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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So what does my elliptical 190 equate out to on a normal main?

There isn't a simple equivalent.

The forward speed is the same as any other 190 at a given glide angle.

The opening sensitivity is unique. My Monarch 135 square is definitely more resistant to opening issues than a 170 Jonathan or 190 Diablo elliptical.

A lot of the tendency to dive and control sensitivity comes from the shape. I briefly jumped a Diablo 190 after herniating a disc and could get it into a diving attitude faster than my Monarch 135.

The control sensitivity which comes from size (line and chord length) and shape doesn't change too much with weight. I've flown my Stiletto 120 with suspended weights between 170 and over 300 pounds (Mr. Bill) and while the extra weight made it a lot faster it didn't seem twitchier like going from a 135 to a 120.

It's not like a faster car or bike where you can avoid problems by not cornering too fast or giving it too much gas. Big bikes aren't easier to turn than small ones. Unlike elliptical parachutes, I've never had a car or bike turn when I didn't want it too and applying the brakes on a land vehicle doesn't cause it to stop flying.

[blacklabjumper 0]

This has got to be a joke. If this guy is serious i will throw my $5 bucks in as well. I obviously cannot contirbute any moe than everyome else has already. This is a bad decision with bad advise. Unfortunately as we all know this guy is going to jump that Heatwave this weekend no matter what we say. That is the frustrating part. We all know from our EXPERIENCE and we try to pass it on to save someone's life but ultimately in most cases the hot shot ignores the advise. The other thing this person is probably not thinking about is the effect a serious injury or worse will have on his friends and family. they will either have to help in bringing him back to health or they will help to bury him. i wish he had a real good friend at the DZ that can prevent this from happening. Sorry to rant and i don't mean to Flame on the OP but this is a preventable situation and JMS please listen to all the other experienced people we may not personally know you but trust me brother we do care and do not want to see you get hurt or worse.
MY .02

Rodriguez Brother #1626
Dudiest Skydiver #1962
DPH #-2

[kmills0705 0]

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So this weekend I have the ok to finally use the rig I got. I'm so stoked I can't wait to see the difference! The difference when they moved me from the student 290 to the student 230 was a huge awesome difference in reaction and just overall feel of it. My 190 heatwave should be simply amazing! Sorry if I'm boring anyone I'm just overly excited!
Joe

Here are your own words from a previous thread you posted to:

"Anyway I loved the first jump, had a good climb out, good arch, good canopy ride, then forgot all on landing."

"Heres a link to my little sis's great landing and my friend and I not having the same luck. "

So, let me guess. You have worked out all your issues in your whopping 10 jumps?!

I am glad you have your dz listed in your profile. If your instructors are letting and advising you to jump an elliptical at 11 jumps then this is a place I will never jump at.

I am glad you know your body and it's limits. But I am here to tell you that you have NO CLUE what this canopy is capable of and what it's lack of limits are....

I can't help to wonder if this is trolling because of the sheer lunacy of this post.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[Heatmiser 0]

Well, he's a real guy. Found him on facebook. What it is, is he's young, and immortal still. To the OP: I have flown the same size heatwave at around 40 jumps. Scared the shit out of me. Too much for you. In the last 12 months alone I have seen one friend go to an elliptical at 50 jumps, and because of an asymmetrical flare on landing tear his ACL. Athletic, military, quick thinker, the whole bit, and he still had surgery and was on crutches for three months. Another friend, this year, 225 jumps, transitions to an elliptical, (not a downsize, just planform). 3rd jumps, flares to hard, and asymmetrically, and hits hard enough to break his heel. That is alot of force, from a couple of what would have been minor mistakes on another canopy. Will you 100 percent injure yourself? Maybe not. I will tell you what is certain. 1: You will be a danger to anyone under canopy in the air with you. 2: You will not become proficient at flying that canopy, because you won't have time to develop muscle memory, you will be spending all your time trying to keep it in control. Getting new gear is very exciting, and congratulations! Probably wanna rethink and sell or trade that Heatwave though.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[Ketia0 0]

IM still pretty new... What does it mean when you say "put me on the board for $5".


At first i thought it meant load.. but then I rememberd loads are a minimum of 15 for H-A-P

"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell

[Harmless 0]

Bounce Bingo

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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IM still pretty new... What does it mean when you say "put me on the board for $5".


At first i thought it meant load.. but then I rememberd loads are a minimum of 15 for H-A-P

Bounce Bingo. Sort of a betting pool as to when dude is going to get hurt.

It is a comment that hopefully makes this dude rethink his chioce. If people are betting about when (not if) he will get hurt or killed, he might realize how dangerous his behavior is.

But, since he has already claimed Mad Skilzzz...

JMS8800 - Seriously - You may well know your body and have great agility, reactions and all that.

But you don't know what this canopy is capable of. There is a reason you shouldn't be on it. Look at the profiles of the people saying it's a bad idea. There are some world class skydivers on this site.

NONE of them are saying that this is a good idea.
Think about it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JMS8800 0]

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The owner and all the staff said they feel comfortable with my progress and said they feel confident. They said well be very careful and put a radio back on me for the first few just in case it's needed.

I didn't realize that Truman Sparks had moved the school to Midland.

My advice to you is, "Turn your radio WAY UP Mr. Hicks".

And put me on the board for $5 too just because I don't ride anything as cool as a 'Busa or fly a Velo yet but I do listen to canopy pilots with a shit-ton of experience.

Edited - I have a perfectly good Sabre 170 that I bought for my 1st main. I was holding it for someone at our DZ but I'd make you a deal if you want it and don't jump that HW. You would load it at about .9 and you can lean everything you need to advance on a Sabre w/o the unforgiving risks of an eliptical. PM me if interested. (Now I feel better about tossing in my $5.)

pm sent

[Andy0689 0]

Has anyone ever laid out a grid like when you play cow-patty bingo? Get a bunch of white engineer tape and lay out a huge grid on the dropzone, number each one and then place bets on where said jumper will hit the ground first.

How many threads get posted here like this? It amazes me how folks are dumb enough to post crap like this. Also amazed at the overwhelming number of responses are submitted trying to talk these folks out of doing something stupid. On the flip side, someone asks a good, sensible question, gets hammered and is promptly told to use the search function.

So, we encourage folks to post shit like this by giving it two pages of responses and discourage folks from posting good, solid questions by shutting them down with directions to the search block at the top of the page.

As much as I hate to see anyone get hurt, the OP is going to do what everyone at his DZ is saying would be OK for him to do regardless of what is being discussed here. Let's stop badgering the guy so he won't be embarrassed to post what happens in the incidents forum if something goes wrong.

Andy
I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube!

[IanHarrop 41]

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I'd like a spot on the board please. Who can I paypal the $5 to?

I haven't put BB money down for a long time... probably over 25 years, but this is a sure thing.

I need to know who to send my $5 too as well.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[monkycndo 0]

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Edited - I have a perfectly good Sabre 170 that I bought for my 1st main. I was holding it for someone at our DZ but I'd make you a deal if you want it and don't jump that HW. You would load it at about .9 and you can lean everything you need to advance on a Sabre w/o the unforgiving risks of an eliptical. PM me if interested. (Now I feel better about tossing in my $5.)

pm sent

[Psychonaut 0]

I have full faith in this kid..

..therefore I'll put $10 in..

Stay high pull low

[Heatmiser 0]

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Has anyone ever laid out a grid like when you play cow-patty bingo? Get a bunch of white engineer tape and lay out a huge grid on the dropzone, number each one and then place bets on where said jumper will hit the ground first.

How many threads get posted here like this? It amazes me how folks are dumb enough to post crap like this. Also amazed at the overwhelming number of responses are submitted trying to talk these folks out of doing something stupid. On the flip side, someone asks a good, sensible question, gets hammered and is promptly told to use the search function.

So, we encourage folks to post shit like this by giving it two pages of responses and discourage folks from posting good, solid questions by shutting them down with directions to the search block at the top of the page.

As much as I hate to see anyone get hurt, the OP is going to do what everyone at his DZ is saying would be OK for him to do regardless of what is being discussed here. Let's stop badgering the guy so he won't be embarrassed to post what happens in the incidents forum if something goes wrong.

Try the search function

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[bucketlistpilot 1]

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Cudos to the offer on the 170. But JM, please realize that the downsize from the 200+sf canopy to a Sabre 170 will be dramatic. I would still suggest a progression maybe to a docile 190 to get some experience before you try a 170. I waited some extra jumps on rentals before I jumped my own gear and am thankful I did. I still own that Sabre 170 and remember that first jump on it was sooo much faster then the 190 I had been jumping prior.

Went from student 260 to my own Sabre2 210ft at jump 21. 23 jumps later it still makes me nervous and will for a long time yet.

This guy should get one of those small new cameras and throw that into the mix as well.

Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
admin@loadupsoftware.com

[Andy0689 0]

Andy
I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube!

[Psychonaut 0]

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This guy should get one of those small new cameras and throw that into the mix as well.

GoPro's usually do survive the terminal impact, so yeah why not

Stay high pull low

[Lastchance 0]

So what did you do? Did you take the advice of the veteran jumpers or did you go ahead and buy and jump the Heatwave?

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[ridestrong 1]

Hey, I don't have the experience to tell you what to do or not to do, but definitely keep this in mind:

You were likely flying something like a Navigator while on AFF. Those fly very slow and descend slow without much or any forward glide to the ground. With these canopies and on AFF they usually tell you to wait until you are at approx 15' above ground and then FULL flare.

As others have mentioned, you will definitely have to know how to perform a 2 stage flare with that Heatwave. You can't simply full flare at 15' as it will either collapse or bring you another 20' higher, both likely ending with a hard landing to say the least. And also as previously mentioned you will be coming in for your landings much much faster.

I also started down-sizing, using Spectres and Sabre2s right off AFF and the 2 stage flare was with out a doubt the most important thing I learned with the landings. If one of your toggles is even a few inches lower than the other (especially with an elliptical) you can dive and hit hard, even if your only a foot off the ground.

At the very least you may want to rent or borrow something like a Spectre 210 to get a feel for a canopy with more forward glide on landings.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[alberto1980 0]

I wouldn't seek advice on the internet for this, even if you find qualified people here. Just stick to what the experienced and qualified people you know (i.e. your instructors) suggest to you, and you will be fine.
Enjoy your skydives, have fun and be safe

[tsisson 0]

135 lbs under a 190? I don't think this is as radical of a concept as many here are reacting to.

That said...I know of a very progressive dropzone in the midwest that put all AFF students out on Sabre's...and did so safely. I personally saw some students transition to Stilleto's for a few jumps...and many bought and jumped ellipticals for their first canopy's. This was all done with alot of coaching, mentoring, attention,and constant reminder that you will likely die if you screw up close to the ground.

Remember that low turns will kill you, no matter what sort of canopy you are flying, and fly this one conservatively knowing that it will put you in the hurt locker more efficiently if you screw up close to the ground.

Use your head when flying the gear you have...be conservative...stay ahead of the jump...head on a swivel...don't try to get cute with swooping at this point...live to learn.

My 2 cents.

[tsisson 0]

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Or a flat turn? Might be a handy skill to have when flying an elliptical at any wingloading.

What about a loop de loop?