jumping thru clouds?

[point_code 0]

Last week at the DZ I overheard a gal talking about a jump earlier that day where she had flown thru a cloud under canopy and how her lines were a little wet when she came out. she talked as if the experience was cool. I know it's not legal to do this, but at first I thought that would be cool too. After a little thought I realized that if the lines were wet, then the canopy must have been wet too. wouldn't a wet canopy fly dirrerent and pose a safety issue??

Just wondering................Thirsty for knowledge I guess

[tombuch 0]

A wet (or in this case, probably damp) parachute isn't a big deal. A parachute that is packed when wet will generally open faster and harder, at least based on my experience after water landings.

The major threat of flying a parachute through a cloud is that you may hit an airplane or another parachute. If the cloud is low, you may fly off in a wrong direction and not make it back to the DZ.

Flying through a cloud is dangerous and illegal. And yes, it's pretty fun too, but not recommended.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[BRYANGOESBOOM 0]

DISCLAMER: I dont know jack talk to your instructors


I have had to fly thru clouds before, sometimes you have no choice. i have not had wet lines as a result of this.........i have heard of ppl getting there canopy wet on the ground taking it up and jumping it to dry it out before
i dont think thats as big of a safety issue as not being able to see anyone around you under canopy

if you cant see them they cant see you .......kinda creepy


Plz correct me if im wrong no flames needed here

Not only will you look better, feel better, and fuck better; you'll have significantly increased your life expectancy. --Douva

[HydroGuy 0]

There are no clouds...as USPA/FAA rules forbade this.

But that industrial haze gets really thick and is neat to fall through

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[kevinwhelan 0]

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here are no clouds...as USPA/FAA rules forbade this.

Thank god we are not bound by uspa/faa rules or we would never get to jump. Once the cloud base is above 2500 ft we are good to go.
I have often got out in cloud at 10000ft and fell to 2500ft all in cloud only to be able to see the ground at 2000

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[AggieDave 6]

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I have often got out in cloud at 10000ft and fell to 2500ft all in cloud only to be able to see the ground at 2000

There have been DZs in the US that have let this sort of stuff happen before (I know you're not in the US), but safety aside, I'll say that being stuck in a cloud for more then just a moment SUCKS for your skydive. You're looking around wondering where that last diver was and where that one guy that went low was, you can't see very well, and you don't know where you're going for your break-off.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Guest]

There was a fatal incident where guys doing BASE had wet canopies from hitting a creek. The canopies were packed wet, and froze overnight (in the car truck it seems) into blocks of ice and didn't deploy. Much different than what you asked about but worth remembering all the same.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Travman 6]

In Australia a DZ can get special clearance to be able to jump through cloud.
There is a big process they must go through to get this approval.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

At Spacecenter in Florida for me ( I was a AFP student) we had to wait on jump run quite a bit and actually change our spot twice because of clouds. I would say it was at least a extra 4 mins, but it could be the adrenalin that made it seem that long.

In Deland we went through industrial haze, but it was 3 seconds worth of oh shit this is cool.

I would never want to be in a cloud as long as some have described here. All I would think of is the others that are in that cloud with me, or the plane that goes through it.

Lisamarie

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Andy9o8 2]

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There was a fatal incident where guys doing BASE had wet canopies from hitting a creek. The canopies were packed wet, and froze overnight (in the car truck it seems) into blocks of ice and didn't deploy. Much different than what you asked about but worth remembering all the same.

If your account of that incident is accurate, that canopy didn't malfunction because it was wet; it malfunctioned because it was frozen. But mostly, it malfunctioned because the jumper failed to do a proper gear check under the circumstances, and in those circumstances, a proper gear check should have been to un-pack those canopies, look them over carefully, thaw them out and re-pack. So the lesson from that incident has less to do with wet canopies than it has to to with taking the time to do a careful pre-jump equipment check -- which includes being willing to miss a load to re-pack if there's any doubt.

[stratostar 5]

You could always come out the bottom and find yourself way out over a big ass lake, like the b-25 load did.
And yes they all drowned.

As for base jumps through clouds, skypunk, comes to mind...RIP


~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Guest]

I agree with you on all points, except I don't know if my recollection was accurate. And I read it on the internet. My recollection might be 100% accurate of that BASE post, but they might have got it wrong. Read at your own risk.

The OP asked for risks about clouds/wet canopies, and a significant link in that chain of events was the existence of wet canopies, which froze in their containers. Many readers of this forum live where it freezes overnight even this time of the year. AK, NZ, etc.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[cbowley 0]

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but safety aside, I'll say that being stuck in a cloud for more then just a moment SUCKS for your skydive. You're looking around wondering where that last diver was and where that one guy that went low was, you can't see very well, and you don't know where you're going for your break-off.

Don't forget to mention that raindrops may be ice crystals within the clouds so if you are wearing an open face helmet you end up sort of sand blasted. The resulting smooth chin can be interesting once the pain has subsided. Also, if you sit fly to avoid the sand blasting you end up with a soggy arse/butt which isn't fun if you have the best part of a half mile walk back from the landing area to the packing hangar. It gets very hard to maintain the cool skydiver look to the spectators in such circumstances.

From Travman

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In Australia a DZ can get special clearance to be able to jump through cloud.
There is a big process they must go through to get this approval.

From what I saw of the Australian system it was mostly about paperwork and documented procedures. It was interesting that it was seen as a commercial advantage over operations that didn't have it so the contents had to be kept secret. As a visitor it felt really privileged to be one of only about 10 jumpers in northern Australia allowed to jump through cloud at the time.

[mdrejhon 8]

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Don't forget to mention that raindrops may be ice crystals within the clouds so if you are wearing an open face helmet you end up sort of sand blasted. The resulting smooth chin can be interesting once the pain has subsided.

I got sand blasted on one of my jumps. I even got a little ice on my goggles, so it was clearly ice. Not a pleasant experience.

I just had reddened tender skin, not smooth skin. I did try to shield my face during freefall through ice crystals, so I spared most of my face, but my neck remained mostly unprotected...

[phoenixlpr 0]

:)

You could`ve protected yourself with a ski mask. I`ve seen it from others jumping with openface helmet. Ther were taking a ski mask when they`ve seen the situation require it.

[mjosparky 4]

From AS-8015B:

4.3.3 Compressed Pack and Environmental Tests: Three drops shall be made to the lowest applicable direct
drop speed in 4.3.6 except that prior to the test the parachute assembly shall be subjected to the
following preconditioning: (These tests may be combined with other tests.)
4.3.3.1 Precondition for 16 h at not less than +200 °F (93.3 °C), stabilize to ambient and test drop.
4.3.3.2 Precondition for 16 h at not greater than -40 °F (-40 °C), stabilize to ambient and test drop.
4.3.3.3 Precondition for not less than 400 continuous hours with a 200 lbf (889.6 N) or greater load applied to
compress the pack in a manner similar to that most likely to be encountered in actual use. Test drop
within 1 h after removing the load.

Canopies are tested to with-stand both cold and heat, but not being wet and then cold.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[lowie 0]

Dont quote me on the UK rules but it seems here as though if you can spot (ie a hole in the cloud at the right moment) you can go and if you fall through cloud so be it. Note that if this wasnt the case we'd be lucky to get more than a dozen jumping days a year.

[sweep 0]

From Section 8 of the BPA ops manual :

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3. CLOUD AND VISIBILITY

3.1. Cloud
Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible.

3.2. Visibility

The minimum flight visibility must be at least 5km.

It's not enough to be able to spot, you have to have a hole big enough that for every exit on the runin you can see all the ground between the opening point and the landing area. That being said, you are correct that there is no specific rule about freefalling/flying through cloud if the above conditions are met at the time of exit.

Bear in mind that although clouds will often prevent full altitude there are very few days (at least in Scotland from my experience) where the cloudbase is below 2,200 feet which is about the lowest an A licenced jumper or above can leave the aircraft to have an open canopy by 2000 feet AGL. Just cos it's cloudy does not mean you can't jump.

I get a feeling from posts on this and the UK newsgroup (though not from my club, where we are fairly strict about enforcing this) that this is one of the most commonly broken ops manual rules. There are even photos in this months club news at the back of the mag that look pretty dodgy (though none of the photos have a straight down view so it is entirely possible that all the featured descents were above a large hole and therefore legal).

There have been two UK fatalities in the last year where poor spotting as a result of relying on GPS and jumping through cloud have been considered to be a factor. There have probably been many more off-landing non-incidents in similar circumstances - remember it only takes a small error to complete the chain of events once started.

Jumping when you are unable to visually check the spot is dangerous, not to mention the increased risk of in-air collisions due to other traffic in, or hidden by, clouds. I don't believe it's worth the risk just to get that extra height for a jump, and I think people need to be less complacent with this activity.

But that's just my opinion.....

Sweep.

----
Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

[happythoughts 0]

You might hit what you can't see. Another jumper under canopy while you are at terminal? An airplane?

A month ago at a 4-way meet, I stayed on the plane rather than jump through clouds.