Used Racer&Raven II(1992) . . . is it safe?

[Bodhisattva420 0]

My buddy and I have been looking at used rigs in the classifieds. Do you think this set up would be safe if we stay on our bellies?

1992 Racer w/ 1992 Raven II Reserve(218sq.ft.) 33 repacks, no rides - $400

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=87005;d=1

Converted Raven II main (350 jumps DOM 1992) - $350

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=83175;d=1

[BobbyR1990 0]

you can take this with a grain of salt as I don't have many jumps either. But from what people have told me its not suggested you buy anything older than 20 years (even though this isn't but its close) because it flys so differently. And at such a low jump level it may not be safe.
I'm not voting in your poll so I don't skew the results but thats what i've been told

[Bodhisattva420 0]

Yeah, I didn't even think about that. I was just looking at the jump numbers. I suppose they are too old . . . I knew it was too good to be true!

[PhreeZone 20]

For bargain gear if a good rigger signs off on them as being airworthy... they could work. Issue is with some of the containers from the early 90's they were made before modern AAD's were in the field so they would need a master rigger to retrofit them to work with an AAD if you would chose to use one. That retrofit will cost a few dollars but if you don't have a master rigger near you that can do the work you are looking at spending a lot in shipping to send it to someone that can do the work and that eliminates all the bargain on the rig.

Then again if your DZ still is using round reserves almost anything would be an upgrade from that so this might be a good solution.

Carefully screen riggers on this, some will approve anything you put in front of them, others will be really picky. You want a picky rigger for things out side the normal situation like this.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[davelepka 4]

That's a fine reserve canopy.

The Racer - how many jumps? Keep in mind it's going to have velcro riser covers, pin covers, and toggles, all of which need to be maintained. You can bet it will all need replacing, so figure $50 for that. Also, it may have the pilot chute pouch on the leg strap, so you'll need to have one installed on the bottom of the container and the velcro for the bridle leading to the pouch. Another $50 to $75.

In the end, it would work if you never ever even try to freefly, even just a little. It might be overpriced considering the work it will probably need. Maybe if you can get the container/reserve for $250 or $300, that would be better.

The main is another story. It's F-111, so the jump numbers make a huge difference. 350 is one thing, but if it's really more like 550, that makes a big difference with an F-111 canopy. Also, you need an extra low wing loading for an F-111 canopy. You can jump an F-111 218 if you normally fly a 190 ZP. Save yourself the abuse, and skip it.

Maybe skip the whole deal. You should be able to find a rig from the '95 to '99 era for not too much more. If you're open to ugly or beat up looking rigs, there's solid cheap gear out there, and you can probably freefly it. For mains, you can find a Sabre with 1000 jumps on it that will fly better than the Raven anyway.

A complete rig for $750 is a fun idea, but the reality isn't going to be as fun as the idea. Try to bump your budget up to $1000 or $1200 and you have much better options. Maybe you and your buddy can pool your money, and each chip in 50% for a nicer rig. Share the rig, and each of you save up another pile of cash in the meantime. One guy can buy out the other guy and own the rig outright, and the other guy buys another rig with the proceeds.

[millertime24 8]

I voted no. An F-111 as a main? Pure silly if you ask me. You can get pretty affordable zp mains (sabre1, spectre, triathalon ect) for pretty decent prices if you keep your eyes open. You may want to send a pm to "likestojump". He always seems to have pretty good stuff at very reasonable prices (i just bought a 06Jav, Nitron150 with 150 jumps, and PDr143 no rides for like $2800. I know thats probably more than you want to spend, but thats all practically brand new gear.). Also, check out some dz websites. Many have used gear they are selling that was used as rental gear. I agree with the other posters that you and your buddy will be much happier spending a little more now and getting something that isn't going to require constant maintenance or even a new main in 50 jumps.

Muff #5048

[Bodhisattva420 0]

Everyone keeps telling me to stay away from F-111 mains. I'd like to get into base jumping eventually and the guys on basejumper.com recommend learning to fly an F-111 accuracy 7 cell. If I end up getting an accuracy 7 cell, do I need to buy a new one? The Flight Concepts Fury 220 is $1000 new. Do I just need to save up to buy a new one?

[Harmless 0]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with F-111 mains... just be aware that they wear out faster than ZP. Much easier to pack though

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[CornishChris 5]

I'm wonding if the predominant answer in the poll turns out to be 'Yes' whether you would get it and go and jump it....

Forget everything on here - get it to a decent rigger and ask them. Period.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[dragon2 2]

I'd day yes on the main if you're interested in base, although that is still a long ways off you can get a feel for the canopy and if you stick with it for 200 jumps or more, it will help you a bit for BASE. OTOH, big chance you won't be doing BASE anyway, but then this main will get you started for skydiving anyway.

The rig, don't know about that, might be better if you bought something with a AAD already (AFAIK that racer will need a 2pin AAD, hard to find 2nd hand), the rig needs some work, although the reserve might be ok the rig I'd personally skip.

Why not ask likestojump if he has a cheap rig & reserve to go with the main

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

Hi Bod,

If you're looking for a Fury with VERY few jumps, drop me an email.

JerryBaumchen

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Everyone keeps telling me to stay away from F-111 mains. I'd like to get into base jumping eventually and the guys on basejumper.com recommend learning to fly an F-111 accuracy 7 cell. If I end up getting an accuracy 7 cell, do I need to buy a new one? The Flight Concepts Fury 220 is $1000 new. Do I just need to save up to buy a new one?

It doesn't need to be new, although it can't be so worn out the descent rate is high and you can't get a comfortable stand-up landing on hard ground flaring from 3/4 brakes.

The best idea is to get a big skydiving rig (I have a J7) and put your usual BASE canopy in there. It'll land harder if you mess up with the extra 15 pounds of weight from skydiving gear but you're finishing in pea gravel so that doesn't matter.

Classic accuracy is very different from flying modern skydiving canopies. Where modern parachutes flatten out with brake application and maintain essentially the same glide ratio (> 2:1) until just short of stalling, accuracy/BASE canopies get steeper with progressively more input (the classic accuracy approach is flown at about a 1:1 slope and 2/3 brakes increasing to straight down at 100% at the end with no flare; you stop at 3/4 brakes and flare BASE jumping since that's still comfortable on hard ground). With enough input they'll come straight down even in no-wind situations. This is something you need to master before BASE jumping into interesting landing areas, and is best learned from a plane (2000 feet not 200) into a pea gravel pit (you can come in too fast and not hurt yourself).

The ideal wing loading for BASE and classic accuracy is about .7 pounds per square foot. It's high enough to keep the canopy responsive but will still give you a comfortable landing with a classic accuracy approach flaring from 3/4 brakes.

If you assume about 15 pounds of gear for a single canopy setup and about 30 for a large skydiving rig (I've stepped on a scale in both cases; where my usual sport rig weighs 19 pounds the big Javelin is 29), a 220 might be a nice BASE canopy for some one who weigh 140 pounds or 130 pound person jumping classic accuracy. Some people would go larger in BASE using the rule of thumb naked weight + 100.